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Topic: Rookie question about High and Low tunings |
Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 9:10 am |
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In my lazy research (i did try at least), I can’t find any good explication about what High and Low bass mean in tuning. Maybe it’s a situation where “a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing”. My limited music theory skill tells me Low Bass means the 5th of the tuning (root key) is the lowest pitched string (6 or8), and High Bass would mean the 5th is on the first string. I get settled on understanding this application, which I’ve assumed is correct, then see a tuning that’s contradictory of this assumption.
Can someone who knows the difference explain what it means before my pea brain is damaged for life?
Thanks! |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 10:08 am
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Hey Bill,
Oddly enough i was on that page hoping to find my answer before posting here. Tunings there are listed as “high” and “low” but no explanation of why it’s called that is shown (unless I’m totally missing it). It confirms my theory but I’m still looking for either a correction or validation. Still, there is great information and insight into many tunings there, which i greatly appreciate. It’s a fantastic website but I couldn’t find my answer.
Thanks though, I appreciate your time replying.
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 10:19 am
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For Open G tuning
GBDGBD = high bass
DGDGBD = low bass
D is lower than B. Essentially, a “low bass” tuning has a deeper bass note than the high bass tuning of the same chord name.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 10:48 am
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Open A – A C♯ E A C♯ E (high bass)
Open A – E A E A C♯ E (low bass)
E is lower than A
Open G – G B D G B D
Open G – D G D G B D
D is lower in pitch than G. It is low G tuning.
G is higher pitched than D, it is high bass tuning.
Understand?
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 11:25 am
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Allan and Bill, thank you. What makes more sense to me now, since you’ve both added clues for my understanding, is the tuning on strings 6-4 (on 6 string steels) define Low Bass as an inversion of the root chord (5th below the chord moving low to high equals 2nd inversion, on treble clef) and, by contrast, a non-inverted chord is High Bass, but really the term is superfluous because you don’t really have to say that unless there’s a common chord inverted tuning you need to differentiate from.
Is this correct?
To add to my confusion let’s say you use G tuning but its B-G-D-G-B-D (low to high). This is a first inversion with B (the third) lower pitched than G (technically still the same tuning). If this is correct would it be called Low Bass or Low Bass B? I’m certain I’m overthinking this but maybe that’s why it’s not an easy answer to find either.
See, a little too much knowledge is a dangerous thing.
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 11:35 am
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Lloyd,
I will make it simple. There are only two tunings I know that use the term High bass and low bass. A tuning and G tuning. When describing which A tuning, there is High bass and Low bass. The one with the lower note as the bottom string is Low bass. The one with higher pitched note in the bass is High bass. Same with G tuning. No other tunings I know of use that term. Sometimes, on an 6 string C tuning, people will ask if you use a high e or high G, but that is really it. While they might be technically an inversion, inversions are not why it is called high or low bass.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 11:42 am
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Fair enough Bill.. ! All good points.
Thank you both. I’m also interested in what other people have to say about this, including anecdotes like what Bill described for C tunings.
Definitely it’s making more sense to me based on both responses.
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 6:33 pm
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I think there is also E7th low bass. such as (high to low) E B G# D B E low bass vs E B G# E D B being high bass. Biggest difference between low bass and high bass are the former can use a regular pack of armpit guitar strings, and high bass (like C6th) need a special set.
Other low tunings that use a usual pack of guitar strings:
E C# B E B E and E C# G# E A# F# |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 6:56 pm
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edit: misread. I always read low to high.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall
Last edited by Bill McCloskey on 21 Jul 2022 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 7:05 pm
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"armpit guitar strings"
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 7:19 pm
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@Bill
"such as (high to low) E B G# D B E low bass vs E B G# E D B being high bass. "
I think what Joe means is backwards, from high to low in example 2 (E B G# E D B ), in this case both D and B (strings 5 and 6, if this isn't a reentrant tuning) are lower pitched than the named "E" tuning. In this case i think it's a 2nd inversion. Anyway, all comments are appreciated Bill and Joe..! Thanks.
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 7:22 pm
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i had to go back and edit my last post for a couple of dyslexic moments.
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Roger Fletcher
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 22 Jul 2022 9:45 am
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Lloyd, perhaps a little history will help. The steel guitar developed from the Slack Key guitar in the late 19th century. Perhaps the commonest tuning for the latter was open G, known as "Taro Patch": DGDGBD (low to high).
The standard tuning for the acoustic steel guitar was EAEAC#E, a tone higher because of the greater tension required to keep the strings clear of the frets. The style for playing this was originally like the Slack Key style, with an alternating bass on the two lowest strings.
When the electric steel appeared in the 1930s, this style went out, and a more legato style developed. Those two low bass strings (E and A) were replaced by A and C#, which were more useful with the greater sustain of the electric instrument.
The new tuning was named "high bass" to distinguish it from the original tuning, which only then became known as "low bass". |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2022 11:06 am
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This makes a lot more sense, more about history and instrument development than the theory I’ve been trying to apply; although there certainly is theoretical application as all of us have pointed out but I’ve definitely overthought this.!
Thanks Roger! I’m satisfied with this as the reason for why there’s a differentiation in tuning names.
Thanks everyone, but if anyone else has more to add please do. In the meantime i need to read more history of lap steel (I just received Andy’s book). I’m still a rookie with lots to learn, thankfully lots of help through insight and experience are here and enthusiastically shared.!
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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