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Topic: Question about National square neck Tricone nut spacing? |
Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 15 May 2022 7:09 pm |
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Hi,
The center two strings on my vintage square neck Tricone are spaced slightly wider at the nut from each other than the other strings (you can see this in the photo that I have provided). I have seen this spacing on quite a number of vintage Tricones. Maybe it was done in order to help keep the strings from rubbing the inside of the headstock? Anyway, since I am still very new to this, I was wondering if the slightly wider space between these two strings might cause an issue when attempting to play certain slants in tune? Or, is this really not an issue when playing early Hawaiian/hot jazz music in a High A Bass tuning? I already had this guitar to two separate guitar shops in order to have a new nut made. Unfortunately, both shops did unacceptable jobs and ended up refunding me. This left me without my guitar for months. I am trying to figure out if I should try another shop, buy some new nut files and do it myself, or if I can just leave it as is.
Thanks for your help!
Last edited by Ryan Matzen on 27 Jun 2022 6:46 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 May 2022 7:41 pm
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| You could put a metal nut riser like a Kamiki or Manaloff on it if it really bugs you. I have them on my '30s Oahu square necks and they work great, even period correct. I would just play it like that myself, I've had much worse. |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 15 May 2022 9:12 pm
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| Glenn Wilde wrote: |
| You could put a metal nut riser like a Kamiki or Manaloff on it if it really bugs you. I have them on my '30s Oahu square necks and they work great, even period correct. I would just play it like that myself, I've had much worse. |
Hi Glenn,
Thanks for the input.
I don’t think that I would really want to use a nut riser. I am not sure it would work anyway. The string spacing on my square neck Tricone is a good 10mm wider than the spacing on my round neck Collegian. Plus, the current nut is already at a nice height. If I keep the current nut, I will have to do some work on it in order to get the strings more level with each other. So, I just wanted to know if the current string spacing will affect any slants that I may come across in the future from being in tune or not? If it will, I will have another nut made. Or, I’ll make one myself. And, I will forgo any extra work on the current nut.
I should be able to make a nut for it myself. I just don’t like making them! While my Tricone was hanging out at two different shops, I tried my hand at making a new nut for my Triolian square neck. I was able to do it without any fret files. And, I think it came out pretty decent. Way better than the nuts that the two shops made for my Tricone. But, it took me a very long time. And, I really dislike making nuts. If I end up making a nut for my Tricone, I think that I will buy a set of nut files. Or, at least a pull saw.
Last edited by Ryan Matzen on 27 Jun 2022 6:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 May 2022 7:28 am
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| That spacing never bothered me enough to really notice it, honestly. If you change the spacing at the nut and find the strings digging into the wood, you can always slip some tubing over the strings where it meets the wood. |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 16 May 2022 8:36 am
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I used a homemade mini saw blade (that I made from a feeler gauge), torch tip cleaners and some sandpaper to make the nut for my Triolion. If I was to buy nut files I would purchase the same Stewmac files that I used to own. I just hate making nuts. I’ll make one if I have to. But, even if I wear a mask, I will end up getting a bad migraine for a few days. I believe I have some sort of allergy to bone dust.
Last edited by Ryan Matzen on 27 Jun 2022 6:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 16 May 2022 8:48 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| That spacing never bothered me enough to really notice it, honestly. If you change the spacing at the nut and find the strings digging into the wood, you can always slip some tubing over the strings where it meets the wood. |
I am not that worried about the strings hitting the wood. I just brought it up because of the many vintage Tricones that I have seen that had a wider spacing between the two center strings than that of the other strings. I was thinking that because of how often I have seen this, that it may have been done purposely. I think if did correct the spacing with a new nut, and it was needed, that I could add some extra string windings to get the strings further away from the wood.
I am mainly concerned with slants being out of tune. Or, when moving the same slant to a different string set and having to adjust the angle of the bar slightly to get it in tune. It sounds to me that you don’t think this would be an issue at all? I am still very new to this. And, I haven’t been able to play enough to know if this would be an issue for me down the road.
This is a little hard for me to convey. But, I am currently tuned to A C# E A C# E. The string spacing is equal between all of the strings except for the middle E and A. So, any slant that I play on one set of the A C# E can easily be transferred to the other set of A C# E. I am concerned that there may be some slants that I may come across as I learn that might overlap those two string sets and create tuning issues. I hope this makes sense. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 May 2022 9:40 am
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I absolutely understand what you’re saying. I know there are folks who are far more detailed about these things than I am. I am even that way about tuning—I’m just not as vigilant as others. I guess I have always relied on my ear for everything. That said, slanting is weird in the way that some things seem like they should work and don’t and other things do. And no matter how hard I try, I can never get slants right without a little bit fudging.
Play some music on that baby! |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 16 May 2022 1:06 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
I absolutely understand what you’re saying. I know there are folks who are far more detailed about these things than I am. I am even that way about tuning—I’m just not as vigilant as others. I guess I have always relied on my ear for everything. That said, slanting is weird in the way that some things seem like they should work and don’t and other things do. And no matter how hard I try, I can never get slants right without a little bit fudging.
Play some music on that baby! |
Thanks for your input. As you may have read above (I think that I stated it earlier), I just got the guitar back after months of it hanging out at two repair shops. Unfortunately, as much as I’d love to be playing right now, I just can’t. I recently tore a couple of tendons in my picking hand. I have been told that I should wait for two more weeks and see what my doctor has to say before I start picking with it again. If I do keep the original nut, which is I am now leaning towards, I will have to work on it a little as the strings are not level with each other. It will be easy enough to do. I just wasn’t going to waste my time doing it if I was just going to make another nut anyway. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 May 2022 1:15 pm
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| Oh man, I’m sorry I missed that part about your hand injury. Hope it heals well and soon. I’m sure you’re chomping at the bit. |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 16 May 2022 2:03 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| Oh man, I’m sorry I missed that part about your hand injury. Hope it heals well and soon. I’m sure you’re chomping at the bit. |
I don’t think I mentioned my injury here. Looks like everything should be fine as long as I do my PT and take it easy for a couple more weeks. I really can’t wait to start learning some things on the Tricone though! |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 May 2022 4:22 pm
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| Ryan, I think you will have a much better experience making nuts if you invest in a nice set of files, I shimmied around it for years with all kinds of cheap things and honestly, wasted good time! Since I bought a nice set of Hiroshima files I'm much happier. |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 May 2022 4:22 pm
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| Dont know why it keeps double posting on me |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 17 May 2022 4:38 pm
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| Glenn Wilde wrote: |
| Ryan, I think you will have a much better experience making nuts if you invest in a nice set of files, I shimmied around it for years with all kinds of cheap things and honestly, wasted good time! Since I bought a nice set of Hiroshima files I'm much happier. |
I know I would. I sold my last set because I was getting bad migraines after each nut that I made (there is something about the bone dust that doesn’t agree with me). I decided that if I ever needed another nut made that I would just bring the guitar to a reputable shop and have someone else make it. Unfortunately, it seems that people around here have a difficult time making decent nuts. And, the turnaround times and costs have gone way up. I may just purchase another set. |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 19 May 2022 9:00 am
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The consensus from everyone I’ve been able to get input from seems to be that a minor variation in string spacing shouldn’t be a big deal.
Thanks for everyone’s help! |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 20 May 2022 6:45 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
That said, slanting is weird in the way that some things seem like they should work and don’t and other things do. And no matter how hard I try, I can never get slants right without a little bit fudging.
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This is one of my biggest frustrations with steel guitar! I am curious if there is a consensus on wether having the nut have narrower string spacing than the bridge will help get slants in tune more evenly up and down the neck? It would seem this would help, but like you say, "things that should work sometimes don't". I am finding I like a 3/8" spacing the best in general. |
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Patience pays off. Good nut files are insanely expensive, but I'm thinking they would be worth it.