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Post new topic The Mysterious but Simple Kline Type Changer
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Author Topic:  The Mysterious but Simple Kline Type Changer
Sonny Jenkins


From:
New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
Post  Posted 17 May 2022 8:08 am    
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Here is a basic Kline type changer, laying on one page of detailed diagrams of components of an older Kline guitar, meticulously prepared by my friend Paul Redmond . This changer has positive stops at the end plate, very much as a PP or Emmons type changer. It is believed by some to be very limited in the number of changes it is capable of,,,but on the contrary, it is almost unlimited. I'll be glad to discuss to the limits of my understanding. I am putting together a mock up that I will hopefully post soon
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 17 May 2022 8:33 am    
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The changer fingers on the Kline that I had, had 2 hooks each for raises and 2 for lowers that the loop at the end of the rod hooked on to. Each hook could accommodate 2 rods giving 4 raises or 4 lowers (per a conversation I had with Joe Kline). Yes, the stops were when the tuning screw hit the endplate, exactly the same as a ZB. I think I remember seeing that later models had positive stops in the undercarriage, but maybe they were added by the guitar's owner.

Out of 2 ZBs, 2 Sho~Buds, 1 Williams, 1 Mullen, and 1 Carter, the Kline was by far my favorite. Wish I still had mine.



_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, "The Loar" (brand) mandolin, Cozart D6 lap steel, NV400, Nv112, Mackie 12 ch mixer, . Playing for 52 years and still counting.
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Ross Shafer


From:
Petaluma, California
Post  Posted 17 May 2022 10:08 am    
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For those who aren't familiar with him...Paul Redmond is probably the most knowledgeable and talented pedal steel builder/tech/mechanic on the planet!

He's also a VERY good player!

Seeing pics of his Whitney steels here on the forum provided the push I needed to dig into building these contraptions.

Thanks for the inspiration Paul!!
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Sonny Jenkins


From:
New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
Post  Posted 17 May 2022 10:30 am    
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Richard, of the many Klines I've owned I've never seen one like that,,,however each hook is capable of multiple changes. There are 3 rows of holes in the end plate, top row for raises, bottom row for lowers and middle row for option of raise OR lower. Additional changes can be made on each string by "borrowing" a near-by hole,,,or,,it doesn't necessarily have to be near-by. I think I've even heard of someone drilling an extra hole in the end plate for an additional change? Maybe Winnie,,Julian Winston???,,,He was very pro Kline,,wrote some good papers on them. Anyway,,,36 holes (12 string) = 36 possible changes,,,maybe more depending on how innovative. And let's not neglect the yoke pulling system on each pedal or lever,,,makes for a self equalizing note change.

Joe later designed and installed little "L" shaped posts with set screw for stopping pedal/lever,,,for additional firmness.


This mechanism is kinda "roughed" out,,,the additional hole in the wood behind the rotating finger is for experimenting on moving the finger back to the end of the guitar,,,,shorten about 1 1/2". Maybe,,,maybe not??? Quien sabe??
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 17 May 2022 10:59 am    
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Mine had hooks (bent drill rod?) on the bars that had the tuning screws that went through the end plate. Come to think of it, there may have been just one hook. But I remember talking to Joe about more than 2 pulls on one string (I had 3 raises on my C6 3rd and 4th strings). While warming up right before the start of a gig, I pressed down on the B pedal, and the pedal stayed on the floor. 😱 The hook that the rod was hooked onto broke off. The rod wasn't long enough to make it to the other hook. I had to set the 3rd string pull to a lower (tuned open string to A) and play that string "backwards" (lowering) the whole night, while playing string 6 the regular way (raising). Talk about a major brain overload 🤯. Joe sent me a new finger.

If that finger drawing you have is from a Kline, maybe others had the hooks break and he changed the design. Mine was a late 70's guitar. The hooks were kind of a bad design I guess. When pedal travel was stopped by the tuning nut hitting the endplate, there was still force exerted on the hook and pressing the pedal too hard increased that force. That was the only problem I had with that guitar.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, "The Loar" (brand) mandolin, Cozart D6 lap steel, NV400, Nv112, Mackie 12 ch mixer, . Playing for 52 years and still counting.
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Sonny Jenkins


From:
New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
Post  Posted 17 May 2022 11:12 am    
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Yes Richard, that was an early design problem,,,in fact that is what the diagram was drawn from. Later ones were 1/8" CRS. I'm going to try to use 7075 aluminum.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 17 May 2022 11:19 am    
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I love your ambition.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, "The Loar" (brand) mandolin, Cozart D6 lap steel, NV400, Nv112, Mackie 12 ch mixer, . Playing for 52 years and still counting.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 17 May 2022 11:22 am    
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I still think the "yoke" systems by Kline an ZB were the best. No worrying about timing pulls, the yoke(s) took care of that for you. All changes on a pedal started and stopped together. Loved it.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, "The Loar" (brand) mandolin, Cozart D6 lap steel, NV400, Nv112, Mackie 12 ch mixer, . Playing for 52 years and still counting.
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