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Topic: Paddle Vertical Levers |
J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 13 Feb 2022 10:19 am |
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"Paddle" (horizontally moving) V-Levers is a subject that has flared up every Flu Season and the basic principle idea is well known.
I am currently in the process of re-rodding a little keyless Excel Keyless S12... I say "little" because unlike most keyless guitars, it's a 24 1/2" scale.
Anyways... I use 3 V levers on my C6th only (2 over the LK cluster & one over the RK cluster ( I don't use a volume pedal anymore).
So, here's a progress report... it's still in the works:
General Concept:
Cross Shafts with "horizontal"-actuator bell cranks and vertical stops:
Mockup of the actuator plate (the horizontal V-Lever will be attached elevated on top of the wide end. The legs will each be hinged to the interior of the front apron:
Excel Superb guitars are like LEGO for grownups.
I already have the paddle plates made of aluminum... I'll be working on it from Tuesday on again and post pictures and eventually a video.
SO FAR, I don't see that it would take more space than side hung V-levers.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Posted 14 Feb 2022 7:34 am
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You are not the first to think this way. forumite Charley Bond has made one for his classic Sierra and the new Sierra has one similar on their website.The idea apeals to me very much but I have not installed one yet
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Steve Mueller
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2022 8:29 am
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JD, Great idea. Looks much easier to use than a traditional vertical lever, Willaims keyless steels are 24.25" scale by the way, shorter than the Excel. "Littler!"
_________________
2016 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2015 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2023 Williams S12 4 x 5, Milkman Amps, 1974 Gibson Byrdland |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 15 Feb 2022 5:58 am
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| Bas Kapitein wrote: |
You are not the first to think this way. forumite Charley Bond has made one for his classic Sierra and the new Sierra has one similar on their website.The idea apeals to me very much but I have not installed one yet
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Thanks!
YES, I know I am not the first to think about it. I remember posts about this 2 Decades ago! I can not believe how none of the builders never picked up on it.
I will post on mines wether the work fine or don't.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 15 Feb 2022 6:56 am
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| FWIW, Jerry Brighton had a forward pushing knee lever on his Emmons Legrande D10 in the early 2000's. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 17 Feb 2022 1:37 pm coming along...
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I am at the shop (we build Super Cars off classic cars), setting up that li'l Excel Supreme.
I now got the V-lever Actuators figured and attached to Excel hardware. I am weighting a roller at the Actuator's reading end (where it gets pushed down by the paddle).
I made aluminum sheet hinge-paddles but they were unstable.
So now I got a 6.5mm/o.255" thick hinge-paddle which I drilled open for weight reduction. I tested torque on the vise and it hold up good.
The actual KNEE-lever going across will be lacquered wood. (I will also have a lacquered wood lining on all the other levers because some times I like to wear white trousers).
so far, this is still just a mock up... but the pulls are connected, balanced and tuned.
... back to looking for a hacksaw and the sledge hammer!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 27 Feb 2022 6:37 pm
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Just finished that little Excel Superb with 2 front-hinged V-levers and am very pleased with the result:
Here are some pictures:
Both the RKV and both LKV required a front-hinge bracket as this guitar has NO wood in the front to drill into. I could therefore NOT drill the hinges into the front apron.
Anyways, LKV's had to be cleared off the pedal hookup-cranks no matter what. So, I made "L"-brackets for both.
LKV's "L"-brackets had to be drilled to let the cross-shafts pass. They are screwed into the top of the guitar (screw holes thru into the wood neck above).
Here are two function videos:
Basic functioning:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wz8y6io3h673b9m/V-Levers-Function.MOV?raw=1
As you will see, besides the front-hinge levers and their hinge-bracket and the "reader-finger" which is lodged in a pair of closed OEM-Excel bell-cranks, pretty much all is OEM-Excel parts: the stops, cross shaft and bell cranks.
Leg-Room and cross-function achieved (being able to play a V-lever and add a regular lever too it with the same leg):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6ugsp9yilnc13c/V-Levers-Leg%20Room.MOV?raw=1
Since the "reader"/"actuator" which is born at the cross-shaft, reads the front-hinged actuator-paddle pretty much in the middle of the V-lever, TORSION is an issue.
I started with two-legged 1/16" shape-reinforced paddle which would give on both sides. The paddles need to be very rigid to torsion. I should that 1/4" material seemed to be the solution. I needed to be wide at both end.
Evidently, mass becomes an issue not just for transportation but for acceleration (inertia). I tested drilling them (as seen above) reducing mass by 50% without loosing resistance to torsion noticeably. I think they could also have been "bone" shaped and even the center of the "bone" still drilled, as long one maintains wide "feet" at both ends and material thickness.
I played the guitar only briefly, because I was to take an Int'l trip, but carry that "li'l" guitar with me.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2022 3:38 pm
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J.D. Your hinged knee levers Have me rethinking my next project. I am now playing a S12 U, I have thought about installing a Long Vertical Knee Lever like Jeff Newman had on his guitars.
The hinged knee lever may be better for this. Now get out the Paper, Pencil, Compass and Protractor, And start figuring this project over. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 14 Mar 2022 11:03 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
J.D. Your hinged knee levers Have me rethinking my next project. I am now playing a S12 U, I have thought about installing a Long Vertical Knee Lever like Jeff Newman had on his guitars.
The hinged knee lever may be better for this. Now get out the Paper, Pencil, Compass and Protractor, And start figuring this project over. |
Let us see how it comes along, Bobby.
If you have questions, don't hesitate asking.
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Posted 14 Mar 2022 2:34 pm
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| Wow, excellent J.D. That opens up a ton of possibilities. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 6:50 am
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| Bas Kapitein wrote: |
| Wow, excellent J.D. That opens up a ton of possibilities. |
Thanks Bas.
I had 2 considerations:
1- to have the same throw and same feel along the vertical levers
2- to be able to play each vertical lever TOGETHER with the closest "hanging" lever.
I am very satisfied with the result.
Now, I must say that the Excel Superb is an extremely modular designed guitar. There are almost no "custom" parts. I even used some extra knee levers to build the "reader-fingers" under the front hinged paddles. They too are mounted onto Excel's OEM "transfer"-bell cranks (the ones Excel uses to relay or transfer over changes from one cross shaft to another and as the "stopper-crank bell"). My luck was that Excel uses hexagon cross shafts which allowed me to position the "reader-finger" at an 60deg. angel off the "stopper"-crank bell, without further fabrication.
In other words, only the paddles with their wooden cross V-lever and L-bracket holding the "piano"-hinges are of my fabrication.
Had I had access to a milling machine, I would have at least experimented with a "Bone"-shape version of the paddles, for less room invasion. But my finding is, that it DOES require a 1/4" thick material to ensure no perceivable torsion across the lever's length when actuating and after hitting the stop at the cross shaft, since it is important to keep the stop at the cross shaft and NOT at the lever.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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