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Author Topic:  7th String F# Raise
Don Downes


From:
New Hampshire, USA
Post  Posted 22 Dec 2021 6:06 pm    
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Can someone *please* tell me why there is no raise on the 7th string F# ???

It bothers me no end that it's not there when I want it.

School me.

[Moderator note - edited 4th string to 7th string to avoid confusion.]
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Last edited by Don Downes on 22 Dec 2021 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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J R Rose


From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
Post  Posted 22 Dec 2021 6:20 pm    
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Hi Don, Not sure I understand what you are talking about. The 4th string should be tuned open to E and then your 3rd pedal should raise it to F#. If an Emmons tuning and if Day tuning will be 1st pedal. J.R. Rose
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Marc Jenkins


From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Post  Posted 22 Dec 2021 9:08 pm    
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Do you mean 7th string F#?
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 23 Dec 2021 2:15 am    
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I'm certain he is referring to the 7th string . If there is NO 7 raise on your guitar, and you have the ability, then add it .

It is common practice that with a 4 or 5 lever guitar, it will have 6 lower instead of 7 raise , commonly on the right knee going left. (Emmons configuration)

Move the bell crank to align with the 7th STRING and move the rod ( same one) to the 7 RAISE.

My own preference, I placed 5 and 6 full tone lower on the Vertical and placed 7 Raise on RKL

there are no rules and no right or wrong.
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Chris Templeton


From:
The Green Mountain State
Post  Posted 23 Dec 2021 4:00 am    
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Nice response, Tony.
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Jack Stoner


From:
New Port Richey (Tampa) Florida
Post  Posted 23 Dec 2021 5:57 am    
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I've had both the 6th string lower and 7th string raise for 40 years.
RKL lowers 6th string to F# (and split with B pedal to G starting with the 82 Franklin I had).
RKR raises 7th string to G (Buddy Charleton called this his Ernest Tubb lever).
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Larry Allen


From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
Post  Posted 23 Dec 2021 12:18 pm     String 7
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I added it (F# to G#)to my pedal 4 that raises 1 & 2 for a full chord… Very Happy
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Don Downes


From:
New Hampshire, USA
Post  Posted 23 Dec 2021 12:34 pm    
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I indeed mean the 7th string.

I really appreciate you thoughts. Tony's response was spot on.

I just need to figure out what to do.. I've spent way to many hours and dollars on my Sho Bud D-10, and this MSA that I'm really spending more time wrenching than enjoying. But some of your solutions have real merit.

I will assimilate them all in my brain, and see where it leads.
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Don Downes


From:
New Hampshire, USA
Post  Posted 23 Dec 2021 1:38 pm    
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Quote:
My own preference, I placed 5 and 6 full tone lower on the Vertical and placed 7 Raise on RKL


I don't have a vertical Tony, but it makes a lot of sense to have the LKR raise 7 a half step rather than raise 1 a half. It's much easier to bend the bar on 1 than on 7.

It sounds crazy. I have a background in theory and have been playing keys for 60 years, but I still play be ear. Not being able to raise the II offends my ears.
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Ricky Davis


From:
Buda, Texas USA
Post  Posted 23 Dec 2021 2:40 pm    
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Don; look below on my picture of my LDG E9 setup, and I don't have ANY Probs with the 7th string raise on my RKR and with a half stop feel on that lever; I raise it to G and G#....I use the HECK out of it.
Ricky

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Dave Mudgett


From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
Post  Posted 23 Dec 2021 4:52 pm    
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If it offends you to not have that change, add it! Lots of guitars have the change. You can do that by adding it to an existing lever, as Ricky suggests, or you can add a lever.

Personally, I only have the G#=>G/G# change on two guitars: one is on a 6th lever separately, and the other is on the D-lever with the string 2 D#=>D=>C# and string 9 D=>C# pulls, as Ricky suggests. By synchronizing that string 7 pull to start with the string 9 pull, which starts exactly when string 2 starts moving from D=>C#, it gives a nice firm half-stop on string 2, which is a nice side effect.

But on a 5-lever guitar, this change doesn't cut my personal maximum marginal utility test unless I add it to the D-lever - generally, I find the string 6 G#=>F# pull more useful. In that case, I get the G note by splitting my 6th string G#=>F# pull with the B-pedal. I know this is all different than doing all this on the 7th string, but that's my factorization. YMMV.


Last edited by Dave Mudgett on 23 Dec 2021 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post  Posted 23 Dec 2021 5:03 pm    
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Put it on there. Not a big job. If you tune it a whole tone to G# with a feel stop at G, you'll get more mileage out of it. One thing with the whole tone raise is the maj7th with pedals down. You'll find other uses for it in both tones too. You'll love it.
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Dean Holman

 

From:
Branson MO
Post  Posted 15 Jan 2022 1:57 pm    
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I do a lot of stuff raising the the 7th a whole to G#. I like playing it in unison with the 6th string G#. If your guitar has split tuning, you can lower the 6th string G# a whole tone, and with the B pedal, it will raise it a half step to G, which is the same as raising the 7th a half. That’s why I lke raising the 7th a whole tone, and lowering the 6th a whole tone.
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
Post  Posted 15 Jan 2022 4:00 pm     Re: 7th String F# Raise
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Don Downes wrote:
Can someone *please* tell me why there is no raise on the 7th string F# ???

It bothers me no end that it's not there when I want it.

School me.

I was totally unaware of this ... I love the 7th string raise. I have mine with the 1&2 string... I've had the 6th string whole lower there instead in the past and HATED it... I know some of the "Better" players have that change, but for me it was always in conflict with things I wanted to do with 1 and 2. So I have the 6th whole lower on my Vertical where also lower 9 a half. I can use them together for a 6/9 chord or separately without conflict. With the 7th string on the same lever raising 1 and 2, there is NO conflict, AND there's a nice Maj7th chord there if you also raise 9 a half. As well as pedals down strings 8>4 and the whole raise of 7... I also had, but took of, the 7th string whole raise where I lower 2 and 9 a half... It did interfere with some things there... I'm actually lowering 10 a whole there instead. The ways we manipulate 10 strings Laughing Laughing Laughing
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 15 Jan 2022 6:06 pm    
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Raising both F# strings to G was fairly common in the early days, probably because it was so easy to do mechanically. It was offered by several manufacturers as their standard 4th knee lever.
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Mark Greenway


From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
Post  Posted 19 Jan 2022 12:48 pm    
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Right now I have a pedal that raises my 6th string to a B and lowers my 7th string to an E.

So, I can raise my 6th string to twin with my 5th string and lower my 7th string to twin with my 8th string at the same time. It has a nice counterpoint move, and I have always liked the sounds of a string raising while at the same time a string is lowering. Pretty much just a lick, sort of pedal. But I sure like using it.
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Jim Hoke

 

From:
Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jan 2022 12:57 pm    
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Both the 7 raise and the 6 lower have worlds of possibilities, especially if you tune the half-step in between. Paul raises his F#, lots of players do. Most players seem either-or on 6 and 7. I like the post by the guy who has both - LOTS of potential there.... Randy Beavers only lowers 6. I lower 6 but reading here about putting the 7 raise on something else, like the 1 and 2 raise or pedal C sounds intriguing.
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Jim Hoke

 

From:
Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jan 2022 1:01 pm    
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Hey Mark, sounds like you can get some monstrous power chord sounds with doubled B's and doubleds E's that way. You can also bend from a triad with add 2 (B, G#, F# and E) to that huge doubled open fifth. Crazy baby! Or the reverse of that. YEOW!
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Mark Greenway


From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
Post  Posted 19 Jan 2022 1:07 pm    
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Hi Jim,
Mitchell Smithey, the MSA guitar builder and great player had that change on his guitar. When I heard him use it, I just had to have it. So I call it the Smithey Pedal. Smile


Last edited by Mark Greenway on 19 Jan 2022 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ron Pruter

 

From:
Arizona, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jan 2022 8:11 pm    
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Mitchell Smithey, Ah yes. I love his playing but to say he came up with that change. Every time I'd end up on the 7th string accidentally, I, like a million other player, would wish I had a bend on that string. I agree with Jerry Overstreet. Put a half step feel on that whole step change and double your pleasure. I have it synced with the 1st string. Oow La La Razz
BTW, I personally hate the lower 6 one whole step change when it's combined with raising 1 and 2. I put the 7 ++ on there to octave the first string. RP
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Mark Greenway


From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
Post  Posted 21 Jan 2022 12:49 am    
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Ok Pruter. So who came up with that change? And I'm just curious. Do you know of anyone that HAS that change on their guitar? Or do you know of anyone that HAD that change on their guitar at one time and took it off?
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Mitchell Smithey


From:
Dallas, USA
Post  Posted 21 Jan 2022 5:27 pm    
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What Mark called the “Smithey” raises 6 string 1 1/2 tones and lowers 7 a whole tone. It’s good for special effects and contrary harmony. I don’t know where it came from but it’s a lot of fun.
I don’t have it anymore because I’m always trying something new just to get me out of my comfort zone.
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Ron Pruter

 

From:
Arizona, USA
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2022 4:32 pm    
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Mark. Closer reading shows I was talking about the typical way people raise 7 a whole and lower 6 a whole.
I apologize for my mistake. 💝
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