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Post new topic Rack and barrel LKR pics
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Author Topic:  Rack and barrel LKR pics
Eric Davidson


From:
Kentucky, USA
Post  Posted 2 Jan 2022 10:30 am    
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I’ve got a 6139 rack and barrel that, after encouragement from forum members, I managed to move the E raises from RKR to LKL. However, I still need to move my E lowers to LKR but am not exactly sure how, or what parts I may need to make this move. If anyone who has a rack and barrel and their E lowers on LKR could post a pic of how it’s setup underneath it would be very much appreciated




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Kelcey ONeil


From:
Pageland, S.C.
Post  Posted 3 Jan 2022 3:44 am    
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It would be advisable to leave the E lowers where they are, a lot of people play that way and many find it ergonomically more practical. It mainly comes down to what you get used to, and in this case it would require hardware that you probably don't have.
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Mike DiAlesandro


From:
Kent, Ohio
Post  Posted 3 Jan 2022 4:36 am    
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Eric - Here you go. I have altered the racks built for pedals by removing the puller apparatus and flipping it around so that the rack can be used in a reverser placement as in RKR, LKR. You will need a small stick welder to weld the parts in place.

But if you just want to move RKR to LKR,( as oppose to add a LKR), it is the same configuration, just move it and measure about 6" from LKL for placement, buy some longer rods from psgparts.com and you should be all set.

You might want to buy an additional stop for the knee lever as there are a few styles used and the stop tht contacts the knee might be easier to fit.




And here are two pedal racks reworked for LKR and LKL...






And as Kelcey mentioned, if you don't have all the hardware, RKL is NOT a bad place to lower your E's.
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Eric Davidson


From:
Kentucky, USA
Post  Posted 3 Jan 2022 6:19 am    
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Kelcey ONeil wrote:
It would be advisable to leave the E lowers where they are, a lot of people play that way and many find it ergonomically more practical. It mainly comes down to what you get used to, and in this case it would require hardware that you probably don't have.


That’s definitely something to consider. My main concern is that my Emmons has the E’s on the Left knee so I just wanted them to be the same, though it might be easier to change the Emmons than the Sho~Bud?
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Eric Davidson


From:
Kentucky, USA
Post  Posted 3 Jan 2022 6:22 am     Thanks!!
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Mike DiAlesandro wrote:


Eric - Here you go. I have altered the racks built for pedals by removing the puller apparatus and flipping it around so that the rack can be used in a reverser placement as in RKR, LKR. You will need a small stick welder to weld the parts in place.

But if you just want to move RKR to LKR,( as oppose to add a LKR), it is the same configuration, just move it and measure about 6" from LKL for placement, buy some longer rods from psgparts.com and you should be all set.

You might want to buy an additional stop for the knee lever as there are a few styles used and the stop tht contacts the knee might be easier to fit.




And here are two pedal racks reworked for LKR and LKL...






And as Kelcey mentioned, if you don't have all the hardware, RKL is NOT a bad place to lower your E's.


Thanks so much for the detailed pictures, I really appreciate it! I’m at work now but I’ll review the photos when I have more time
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D Schubert

 

From:
Columbia, MO, USA
Post  Posted 3 Jan 2022 3:50 pm    
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Maybe this will be helpful. I have a 6140 that was hacked into a 6139. Earlier this year, I asked Ricky Davis to overhaul it. These are photos of the relocated left knee levers that raise and lower the E's. I'm not enough of a mechanic to explain what was done, but it sure plays good now!



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Kenny Davis


From:
Great State of Oklahoma
Post  Posted 3 Jan 2022 7:31 pm    
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Kelcey ONeil wrote:
It would be advisable to leave the E lowers where they are, a lot of people play that way and many find it ergonomically more practical. It mainly comes down to what you get used to, and in this case it would require hardware that you probably don't have.


I agree - when I first started playing in the early 70s if you played Emmons setup, the E lowers were always RKL. All of my guitars are setup that way, with LKR raising 1 & 7. I recently added the second string raise to it. I can see where it is somewhat ergonomically feasible to have it on the LKR when you're engaging pedal B on a 7th chord, but not for my old brain. I guess I wasn't paying attention when people started moving it to the LKR position!
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Kenny Davis


From:
Great State of Oklahoma
Post  Posted 3 Jan 2022 7:36 pm    
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D Schubert wrote:
Maybe this will be helpful. I have a 6140 that was hacked into a 6139. Earlier this year, I asked Ricky Davis to overhaul it. These are photos of the relocated left knee levers that raise and lower the E's. I'm not enough of a mechanic to explain what was done, but it sure plays good now!


Great work Ricky! It doesn't get any better than that!
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Eric Davidson


From:
Kentucky, USA
Post  Posted 4 Jan 2022 8:58 am    
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So I have an Emmons Push Pull that has both Es on the left knee. Assuming that I would want to have both guitars setup the same, which would make the most sense to change? Are parts any more readily available for Emmons? How about ease of changing knee levers on a Bud or Push Pull? Thanks for the info!
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Jerry Jones


From:
Franklin, Tenn.
Post  Posted 4 Jan 2022 9:45 am    
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On a push/pull the F lever will follow the E lever unless you have enough slack in that F lever. That wouldn't be a problem with both E changes located on the left but with the E lever located on RKL that might prevent a full E lower. I always thought that might have been a reason those levers evolved that way..... that and the fact that you don't use them together.
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Kenny Davis


From:
Great State of Oklahoma
Post  Posted 4 Jan 2022 4:04 pm    
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Eric Davidson wrote:
So I have an Emmons Push Pull that has both Es on the left knee. Assuming that I would want to have both guitars setup the same, which would make the most sense to change? Are parts any more readily available for Emmons? How about ease of changing knee levers on a Bud or Push Pull? Thanks for the info!


If you are used to your Emmons you probably should work on changing the Sho~Bud.
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Lynn Stafford


From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
Post  Posted 4 Jan 2022 4:39 pm     6139 LKL Photos
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Eric,

Here are a few photos of a 6139 that I restored a few years ago. I used knee lever parts made by John Coop.







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Lynn Stafford

STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)

Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)

ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Eric Davidson


From:
Kentucky, USA
Post  Posted 5 Jan 2022 8:53 am    
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Thanks for the advice, Kenny and Jerry, it’s much appreciated. Based on what you all have said I’m going to try and find a way to move the RKL on the Sho~Bud to the LKR, I just have to find or adapt the parts. Since there are no pulls currently on the rack closest to the changer, I’m thinking of relocating it. Any reason I shouldn’t do this? I’m sure I’ll want to add levers on the right knee, but maybe I can find parts eventually.

Lynn, that steel looks amazing! How did you get the parts so clean and do you know if John Coop is still making parts? Thanks!

Eric
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Lynn Stafford


From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
Post  Posted 5 Jan 2022 10:03 am    
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Eric Davidson wrote:
Lynn, that steel looks amazing! How did you get the parts so clean and do you know if John Coop is still making parts? Thanks!

Eric


Eric,

I usually clean parts with Berryman Chem-Dip.

https://www.berrymanproducts.com/products/eco-friendly-products/berryman-chem-dip-carburetor-and-parts-cleaner/

I got the parts from the late James Morehead, who got them from the late John Coop.
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Best regards,
Lynn Stafford

STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)

Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)

ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
----------------------------------
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Eric Davidson


From:
Kentucky, USA
Post  Posted 5 Jan 2022 12:10 pm    
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Okay, thanks so much for the info!
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Tom Gorr

 

From:
Three Hills, Alberta
Post  Posted 10 Jan 2022 2:15 pm    
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Contrary suggestion is to leave the E-lower on RKR.

I have a few steels each with different locations of the E's. E raises on LkL and E lowers on RKR is my favorite of the various permutations and combinations.

What it gives is a smooth full tone D# to F change which really makes a sweet change in many situations. I also believe it is the most "intuitively natural" placement and shares the workload nicely.


What it gives up is one note of a horizontal pentatonic run that needs s8 E-and s9 D- engaged together. You still get the F+D lever run. Ultimately it depends what is germane to your playing approach.

Way back in the early years of the forum, BE and PF engaged in a masters level debate of the pro/cons of same vs split knees.

You might end up changing your Emmons to this config once you get onto it. Right now its simply a free trial.


Last edited by Tom Gorr on 10 Jan 2022 8:42 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Kenny Davis


From:
Great State of Oklahoma
Post  Posted 10 Jan 2022 7:55 pm    
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Doesn't Lloyd Green lower his 8th string with RKR?
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 12 Jan 2022 8:03 pm    
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Kenny Davis wrote:
Doesn't Lloyd Green lower his 8th string with RKR?
yes he does
Tab:
# note  LKL  Ped1  Ped2  Ped3  LKR     RKL   RKR 
1  F# __+G________________________________________
2  D# ________________________________-D/C#_______
3  G# _____________+A_____________________________
4  E  ___________________+F#____+F________________
5  B  _______+C#_________+C#______________________
6  G# _____________+A_____________________________
7  F# ____________________________________________
8  E  __________________________+F___________-D#__
9  D  ____________________________________________
10 B  _______+C#__________________________________

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J R Rose


From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
Post  Posted 16 Jan 2022 9:34 am    
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Eric, change the Sho-Bud. For these kind of parts go to Micheal Yawl at P.S.G. Parts. A very nice Gentleman to deal with. His site shows you all the parts. Your Okie Friend, J.R.
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Black Performance SD-10, 2002. Peavey LTD 400 with 15" Eminence EPS 15-C, Sho-Bud Seat, Goodrich L-120 Pedal, Sho-Bud Bar, Picks, Cords. Nothing else.
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Eric Davidson


From:
Kentucky, USA
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2022 11:06 am    
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J R Rose wrote:
Eric, change the Sho-Bud. For these kind of parts go to Micheal Yawl at P.S.G. Parts. A very nice Gentleman to deal with. His site shows you all the parts. Your Okie Friend, J.R.


Thanks JR, I actually ordered some pieces from PSG part and have them installed. I completely disassembled everything and tried to clean up a bit. Not as clean as the ones above but still better and way smoother action and this was the first experience with disassembly of a steel.




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J R Rose


From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2022 7:53 pm    
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Very Good Eric, Job well done for your first time. You can get addicted to this. Take Care & Be Safe, J.R.
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Black Performance SD-10, 2002. Peavey LTD 400 with 15" Eminence EPS 15-C, Sho-Bud Seat, Goodrich L-120 Pedal, Sho-Bud Bar, Picks, Cords. Nothing else.
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Eric Davidson


From:
Kentucky, USA
Post  Posted 23 Jan 2022 10:14 am    
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J R Rose wrote:
Very Good Eric, Job well done for your first time. You can get addicted to this. Take Care & Be Safe, J.R.


Thank you very much JR, I can definitely see how it could be addictive!
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