Compensatorsâ€¦.

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

This morning I watched a video of Paul Franklin talking about his compensators as the way he keeps his guitar in perfect tuning both in the open position, as well as the pedals down position.

Sure enough, when I sat down at my guitar and voiced a minor triad using strings 7,6,5 with A & B pedals down, that 7th string was out of tune.

Iâ€™m now at the point, after playing for 3 years, where my body is comfy making moves to play steel, and my brain is ready to start fine tuning the sounds I hear in my head.

So, my question is thisâ€¦.does my Mullen RP already have compensators? Where would they be? Are they extra nylon tuning nuts? Or are they found somewhere else? These are different than splits, right?

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Compensators such as what would be used on the strings 1 & 7 are simply changes that flatten the strings. They will look like any other pull. Bellcrank, rod, nylon tuner.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

What Jon says. Don't be confused if you hear about other "compensators" which are gadgets for correcting mechanical limitations in the structure of some guitars.

The ones we're talking about here have a purely musical purpose. I have two pulls, one from each of the A and C pedals to the 7th string. They lower it slightly. I don't need anything on string 1.
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Charley Paul · From: California, USA

My main focus is to see if there is a way to keep my 7th string (F#) in tune for voicing minor chords with A&B pedals pressed on 7,6,5â€¦.

When I use the 7th string as a major 7th with the open chord, it sounds in tune. When I use it for a minor chord with A &B pedals pressed, it is out of tune.

How would I be able to tell if there is a compensator on that string?

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

Ok, Iâ€™ve learned that there are not compensators on my guitar. Any suggestions to get the 7th string in turn for the above mentioned application?

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

All you need is one crank to fit to the A pedal shaft, one pull rod and a nylon tuner if you don't have a spare one already. If you want to connect the C pedal as well (which makes sense) then double the dose. This assumes you have two spare lower holes on the changer.
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

My Emmons' changer is 3+2. I've often wished that I'd had a couple of compensators fitted when I first ordered it but it would have meant 'losing' options at the changer.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Good that you're able to hear the problem. Just my humble 2 cents here, but I'd think a more empowering route than simply putting compensators on you guitar would be to try to understand why the F#(s) create this issue and what the source of the problem is from a tuning perspective. (There are plenty of threads on this exact topic). This will force you to be more conscious of what part of each chord you're occupying when you use those strings. Similarly, using preset 'sweetened' tunings works for a lot of players, but understanding why and how the offsets work as they do will ultimately inform your playing in a more thorough way.

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

Andrew, Iâ€™m in complete agreement. I gave Mullen a call, and they mentioned that 99% of their players do not use compensators because they donâ€™t need to. This leads me to believe that Iâ€™m doing something wrong, probably due to inexperience.

I use a Peterson tuner, and stick to the sweetened SE9 and SP9 tunings. I may experiment with the OE9/OP9, or the EM9/EP9 tunings to see if there is any difference.

Iâ€™ve also been able to adjust my bar technique to get the 7th string in tune with a slight slant. Ideally, Iâ€™ll be able to find a tuning that allows me to keep the bar straight, but if not, I can make it workâ€¦.

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

Not sure if anybody is interested, but I just tuned, retuned, and retuned my guitar using the various presets on my Peterson tuner. Far and away, the best and most accurate tuning was the OE9/OP9 tuning. Open chords, pedals down, as well as using the 7th string were all in tune. Even my LKL was closer to being in tune on diminished chords (but still perfect on major chords using LKL/B pedal)

Kevin Mincke · From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA

I too use the OE9/OP9 sweetened Peterson tuning on my Sho~Bud, Emmons & Carter.

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

I'll second what Andrew Frost said.

I use a bunch of compensators to sweeten many chords. I tune the open F# string 7 to be in tune with an E lever B major. I lower string 7 a smidgen with pedal B, for a sweetened A+B Amaj6 chord. That also sweetens the open DMaj7, strings 9-7-6-5, with A+B engaged. The lower 3 strings are a sweet D major, the compensator flattens the major 3rd note to be in tune with root and 5th.

Hope this helps. BY THE WAY, I tune just one string, open 4th string E (pedals down) and tune the rest of the guitar with harmonics to get the steel really in tune with itself.
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John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

I'll second what Andrew Frost said.

I use a bunch of compensators to sweeten many chords. I tune the open F# string 7 to be in tune with an E lever B major. I lower string 7 a smidgen with pedal B, for a sweetened A+B Amaj6 chord. That also sweetens the open DMaj7, strings 9-7-6-5, with A+B engaged. The lower 3 strings are a sweet D major, the compensator flattens the major 3rd note to be in tune with root and 5th.

Hope this helps.
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

John, it seems that like me you tune in natural intervals, where there's no choice but to lower the 7th string slightly as required.

Several notes on my universal come in two sizes. For instance the 5th string C# on P7 is sharper than on the A pedal, and so on.

There are a few conflicts that don't resolve*, but I work round them for the sake of the sonority I get generally.

* mostly around dim and aug chords. Four stacked minor thirds come to more than an octave, and three stacked majors are less; so some of these chords sound more convincing than others.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I accept that the majority of guitars out there may not have any compensators; my Emmons certainly doesn't. It's also true that one can play one's way around the 'trouble spots' with judicious bar-manipulation and get pretty close. That comes with experience.

It's a compromise, though. I wish I could go to any inversion of any chord on either neck and not have to worry about how out-of-tune it's going to be. That would require a fair few compensators.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Charley Paul · From: California, USA

I agree. I most certainly donâ€™t consider myself an expert steeler, but I do play pedal steel often in my studio, and on a few recordings of my own (as well as a few artistsâ€™ who were unlucky enough to hire me).

In a live situation, I can adapt and make the slightly out of tune sound work. In the studio, I would like things to be perfect..

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

So, I think Iâ€™m gonna go for it and have tuning compensators added to get strings 1&7 in better tune. Iâ€™m hoping for a bit of clarificationâ€¦..

Where should the compensators go? Iâ€™m thinking they should go on B&C pedals to slightly lower 1&7. Sound right? Or should I be adding more? Less?

I donâ€™t want to overcomplicate my guitar!

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

It might be good to point out here that those who use the Newman/Peterson tuning or use Meantone don't need compensators at all. The "Two F#s" problem is solved in a different way, and that's by tuning all of the 5th intervals of the most common chord positions 4 cents flat of "pure" (in Newman) and 5 cents flat (in Meantone).

The trade-off for fixing that "Two F#s" problem is making every chord slightly less 'in tune' sounding than it might otherwise be. But it works well enough overall and I used Newman for a long time before moving to a system that's more internally consistent (we'll leave that for another thread), and one that's customized to the cab drop and raise on each guitar. But that system needs a compensator to end up with 'the best of all worlds.' It's a brilliant solution.

My opinion:

Compensating string 7 is way more useful than string 1, for two reasons. It's used more often as part of a chord -- and tuning outages are more noticeable when intervals are sustained -- and because you can't bar-slant your way out of trouble on a triad where the offending note appears on the middle string in the grip, as it often is on string 7. But it's simple to correct string 1 with a micro-slant, since it's out on the edge of the grip.

So, I compensate string 7, and bar slant string 1. It's a very small slant on string 1. No big deal once you incorporate it into your playing.

I love the compensator on string 7 and it opened up the usage of the two main chords (or grips) I subconsciously avoided because they didn't sound good (D-major and F# minor). Love. The. Compensator. Rod. The best $25 I ever spent.

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

Tucker, I like your thinking. It further simplifies what Iâ€™m trying to accomplish. Do you add the 7th string compensator to all of your pedals, or just certain ones? I keep consistently hearing about adding it to the A pedal (Emmons copedent), but am hearing mixed findings about adding it to B&C pedalsâ€¦.

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

And yet another questionâ€¦..I use a Peterson tuner, Iâ€™m imagining that I will have to still use the sweetened tunings on most strings, but will now have to tune the 7th string by ear with the added compensator? Is this correct?

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

If you use the Peterson sweeteners from Newman, I think you don't need a compensator at all. As in... the note you would want to tune the F# to in the pedals-down world is already the note you're tuned to. Or it will land very close when you step on the pedals and cabinet drop (detuning) naturally flattens the pitch few more cents.

Can you (or somebody) tell me what the offset is for the C# note, and then what it is for the F# note in the Peterson system you're using?

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

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