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Topic: Buddy's favorite |
James Tomlinson
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2021 5:03 am |
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| What pedals did Buddy E. Use or favor the most? And are there any good videos of him playing showing him using his feet? Thanks |
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2021 5:33 am
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Buddy used everything, so that question really cannot be answered.
_________________
AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 7 Oct 2021 6:13 am
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| Can provide one small bit of information. Having learned several of Buddy's arrangements, one move that he used extensively is depressing pedal 'A' part way to achieve a 1/2 tone raise (B to C rather than C#). |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 7 Oct 2021 6:16 am Re: Buddy's favorite
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| James Tomlinson wrote: |
| What pedals did Buddy E. Use or favor the most? And are there any good videos of him playing showing him using his feet? Thanks |
I would go with the previous answer, but I feel there are some pedals he used a lot in what made his signature style. He could go on and on just playing A&B on E9th with not much more than the Eb & Bb-lever. I think, just as the tuning initially was set. I don't seem to hear him doing much of the West Coast C-pedal pumping.
Likewise, many that come from E9th to C6th, tend to mistake the 7th pedal as some kind of "C-pedal thing" and start to pump it up and down AUDIBLY ("moving sound") with a lot of emphasis. BE did not. He was an ACE at using it very quickly and "UN-audibly" (NO moving sound) , switching between picking groups in his chord solos. Once one recognizes that, it will make one understand his playing much faster. "The Will Never Be Another You" on the 1963 Album "Steel Guitar Jazz", is a good demonstration of that.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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James Tomlinson
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2021 2:24 pm
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| I should have clarified my question, I'm more concerned with the C6 neck and the pedals he or which ones are your go to pedals, thanks |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 7 Oct 2021 3:48 pm
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I think that BE besides what I mentioned about his use of the so called 7th pedal, he relied a LOT on the C-to-B lever. It's one of the changes he even used during his single note picking, while he was know to single note play mostly moving the bar only and not so much relying on changes, except maybe for the again the 7th pedal because it moves the whole tuning a 4th, respectively a 5th... similar (ONLY SIMILAR) to playing with A&B down or up.
BE is one of the few who KEPT the "old" 1st pedal (raising the middle A to B) and used it.
He became an avid user of the C-to-C# raise. Most relate it to Jerry Byrd's old bottom C# which gave him the 3rd chord quality besides the CMajor and the Aminor... a Dominant, C# being the Major 3rd of A... A7th (similar to the more complex 8th pedal... but probably it's origin). The C# raise is becomes difficult to tune on a JI tuned C6th because it would work nicely with the 5th pedal with which it creates an A6th (the 5 pedal dropping the b7th to the 6th).
Evidently, he used ALL pedals and levers, to to me the Buddy Emmons C6th sound is heavily based on the 7th pedal and also (double feetin') adding the 5th pedal to it.
Btw... I think this is a VERY interesting subject, and I hope others will fill in.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 7 Oct 2021 6:32 pm
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| James Tomlinson wrote: |
| I should have clarified my question, I'm more concerned with the C6 neck and the pedals he or which ones are your go to pedals, thanks |
BE set aside... I think that most will say, pedals 5 & 6 are the "home"-pedals.
They ARE important because the open tuning has tow Major and one... well, really TWO minor chords:
C Major 6th (CM7th with the 7th pedal)
F Major 7th
A minor 7th
D minor 7th... D?!?! Yes, D minor 9th.
C Major is not only also Am7t (the "relative" minor) but also D-Dorian... and THAT is VERY important when it comes to playing Jazz and Bebop.
I keep my bottom string tuned up to D (like Maurice Anderson would his to C on his Bb6th tuning). Most will have a D on top... you can regard that as the root to Dm9th.
BUT, the tuning, unlike Jerry Byrds which had a bottom C#, lacks the third quality of chords, the Dominant 7th.
IF you look at your bottom string as ROOT "trackers" (as Maurice Anderson would call them), you realize that the 6th pedal turns you 9th string (F)-Major tracker-chord into a DOMINANT 7th (lowering the M7th degree to Dom. or flat 7th).
Likewise the 5th pedal creates a 7/9th chord over the bottom string (pulled to D).
Most of the BE and earlier generation pedal steel guitarists, emerged out of non-pedal playing. BE was KID next to Jerry Byrd, Herb Remington and all HIS heroes... but he too still started out non-pedal. So, being able to have all three chord qualities, Major, minor and Dominant was a big deal. Hence the two pedals (5&6) would seem the "home"-pedals.
Paul Franklin, in his ongoing online course relates to the development of the BE-C6th setup as a creation by Buddy Emmons upon Shot Jackson (Sho-Bud) asking him to come up with a standard as customers were starting to ask for PSG's with not only the new E9th but C6th WITH pedals. As the story goes, BE came up with what we still today look as the basic "standard" tuning & setup.
To ME, the most ground-breaking innovation and stroke of musical brain power was the addition of the 9th string tuned to F... because it opens up a whole new can of worms... and what DELICIOUS worms!
Many will say, "oh, the root to the IV-chord!". I beg to differ: Once the "F" string came along... the tuning not only had the foundation to the Dm9th chord but should effectively also have been re-named "F-Maj7th tuning". Why?
Because when you play JAZZ or Bebop, it's that F-string you will in most cases want to wrap your key center(s) around. Now, you may ask "what if the key does not lay well around that 9th string.... being too high or too low... like anything beteen an DMaj-G#May key center (key centers which would push you over the nut and thus force you to play close or over the 12th fret)?
Well, this again brings us to the 7th pedal. Because when you hit and keep the 7th pedal down (like a change of TUNING, which is a way many of the old multi-neck non-pedal steeler used to look at pedals early on), you turn you C6th into exactly the same CM7/9th with the root at the 7th string with all intervals lined up exactly the same way as you FM7/9th starting at the 9th string.... so, 5 respectively 7th frets apart, 2 stings in or out. Actually, with the 7th pedal down, your 8th string acts like if you had a D on your 10th string looking at the 9th string as the root.
Bobbe Seymore, in his few videos on the subject he left us with, correctly reminded us, that with pedals 5 & 6 you had EVERYTHING and with the 7th pedal you created REPETITION. Darn right he was, even if his videos lacked explanation of his thoughts.
I think that the F string and the 7th pedal BE gave us along, are the greatest gift to THAT he came up with. Because it makes the tuning "revolving", meaning that it becomes "key-polyvalent"... you can play ANYTHING you learned off the 9th-string key center EXACTLY the same way (bar movement & picking) a 5th above by just holding the 7th pedal down and moving out (into the higher strings) 2 strings!
This beats the simplicity of E9th which also moves in 4ths/5ths with A&B on or off.
In Jazz where key centers constantly revolve (movable II, V, I's) this is the must-have tool!
BE who came up with that, initially "odd" appearing change (7th pedal), evidently understood the (HIS) thinking behind it, and this is why I think this is, paired with the 9th string "F" HIS most masterful change and the one HE evidently played the living daylights out'a it.
'nough said for a day?... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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James Tomlinson
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2021 7:08 pm
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| Thank you JD , you, definitely know what your talking about and there's a lot of information in your reply, obviously there's a lot of music theory going on, plus the difference between the E9 and C6 necks are tremendous, and the way to approach playing the C6 is quite different from the E9,C6 technically in just about every way is a totally different instrument from the E9.But having played the E9 does give you some advantage to learning the C6 neck ,the finger spacing and use of the thumb in terms of strumming the bottom strings, then picking the lead on the top strings is a whole new skill to master |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 7 Oct 2021 10:02 pm
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| James Tomlinson wrote: |
| Thank you JD , you, definitely know what your talking about and there's a lot of information in your reply, obviously there's a lot of music theory going on, plus the difference between the E9 and C6 necks are tremendous, and the way to approach playing the C6 is quite different from the E9,C6 technically in just about every way is a totally different instrument from the E9.But having played the E9 does give you some advantage to learning the C6 neck ,the finger spacing and use of the thumb in terms of strumming the bottom strings, then picking the lead on the top strings is a whole new skill to master |
Thanks for the kind words, James.
I think that E9th slowly BECAME an almost "totally different" instrument from even pedaled C6th when newer generations moved into PSG directly into E9th without having played a "swing" or "jazz" tuning or lets call it a 6th or 13th chord tuning and even much less non-pedal steel first. Which is in the oposite direction the instrument and the tunings developed.
We've since heard newer players opine that pedal steel (E9th) is a totally different INSTRUMENT than non-pedal steel... some even suggesting that "pedal steel" (E9th) isn't meant to be played along the string like a steel guitar so much but rather but across the strings mainly with the use of pedals. Essentially substituting "steeling" with "pedaling". While some speed picking ideas among the top 5, 6 stings with the use of A, B and C pedals and some levers can, with the proper technique bring about some impressive sequences, I would still be one who insists on wanting to hear steel moving along the strings. But I can see where changing musical styles create room for alternate playing styles and techniques, but doubt that they have ex-clusive.
I would remind that the beauty, the musicality that made Buddy Emmons, John Hughey, Jimmy Day and so many or our heroes not only famous, but admired musicians in and outside the steel guitar community, was their playing up and down the strings, evidently intertwined with his ability to pick the most and best from under where ever he'd rest his bar COMBINED with the use of pedals, still occasional slants and the now almost extinct use of open strings and hammer'ons and pull'offs.
I would invite to listen to Jerry Byrd's rendition of Danny Boy (that's right, Danny Boy... on NON-pedal steel!). We could have a week's worth of debates only on WHICH tuning he played it. But that's NOT the point. The point is, that he played the song several times thru in the same recording, but each time using a different technique... first playing harmonies along the strings, then playing single notes, then again almost entirely open using hammer'ons and pull'offs, every so tastefully and then, in chimes. Even thou he uses no pedals he demonstrates that it is ONE instrument and NOT the the tuning... but... musicality, understanding and taste... then touch and tone too. BE LISTENED to Jerry Byrd. But JB heard BE too and even recorded one song "let's do this one for Buddy Emmons"! Imagine the man you look up to, a generation before you, recording a song in your honor! That even bigger than having a steel guitar with your name as the brand name on it. And BE got BOTH.
I feel that those who came from the evolution of non-pedal and even only C6th or any other pedaled 6th or 13th tuning into E9th, SAW evident similitudes between the two tunings and thus learned the "new" Bud Isaacs' tuning very quickly and developed from it in only few years from it's invention.
The pressing of the 6th pedal in C6th almost puts the whole deck into the same 7/9th lineup like an E9th guitar without A&B depressed and using the E9th 9th string!
The 7th pedal moves the tuning up a 5th (when looking at the tuning as an FM7 rooted at the 9th string)... almost inversely as playing E9th with pedals A&B down (A6th) and releasing them (I -V).
The way the tuning do that is different, and often not so different.
Maurice Anderson, Jeff Newman and Zane Beck (in a different way) understood that very quickly in the evolution of the instrument, and proved that the tunings could be related, NOT just "combined".
What I think the biggest challenge is for those who started on E9th, and quite often did so mostly because it was Country music that attracted them to the instrument with that tuning, is the fact that the music one tends to play on C6th is more radically different than the tuning different.
Swing, even Western Swing and Jazz have far more complex progressions that often are composed of sequences that are being modulated around constantly and is expressed by chords with all sorts of extensions and alterations one would typically not use in Country music. Soloing is much less melodic and diatonic, than what is called for or expected in Country or Pop.
This is NOT to imply that one music is inferior and the other superior, but Jazz and Bebop is certainly are more complex musical idioms than most even not so traditional Country music. I think a cross over may be Gospel, where Soul, Blues and Jazz elements do incur into Country and Pop type musical concepts.
So, I would tend to suggest that the tunings are not so much different as their applications and thus playing styles.
Yes, on E9th there are a few almost set number of finger grips / string groupings, WHEN you play Country. You look at those who surprise many by playing Swing, Jazz and even Bebop out of a fairly standard E9th tuning and setup and you realize that the first thing they do different, besides playing different progressions, is that they developed more "different" string of finger grips.
Bobbe Seymore was one who could tickle sounds out of a fairly standard E9th that had most wonder "how?" even thou it wasn't even Jazz... today one needs to look further than Paul Franklin's ongoing online course to see him show many of BS' signature "surprise" sounds... "just" playing "off positions" and using string groups that are not the "standard" ones.
Playing C6th beyond wildly rake-piking 4-adjacent strings string groups "Western Swing"-style, is in great part based in using different string groups with different pedal-lever positions. In that lays the main difference.
But I do believe that if one not only plays well and musically (not just mindlessly squeezing two groups of pedals up and down) plays E9th, but UNDERSTANDS it... witch some basic guidance.
BE has often been quoted on his love for the C6th tuning. One can still enjoy seeing and hearing him having fun on BOTH tunings on youtube videos, but, when let "loose" or "free" in his choice of tunes to play, he seemed to have enjoyed to play at least every other tune on C6th. For a man who gained such notoriety among non-steel guitar audiences who mainly heard him playing E9th behind Country singers, that's quite a statement.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 8 Oct 2021 7:13 am
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Having studied with BE & Jerry Byrd and been to Scotty's a few times, I love the way Jerry was always "connected" to his bar hand with no time to BS with AB pedals until the next idea came along.
Jerry called pedal steel players "pedal pushers", probably for the over reliance on the A & B pedals.
The convenience of pedals to change tunings instead of necks was the early driver for the convenience of pedals.
Hawaiians have "strum" tunings, like B11th, that can be strummed across all the strings, which was probably an incentive to check out pedals. Barney Isaacs had an early Fender pedal steel.
Speedy West thought about pedals to change tunings when he started with pedals.
BE was always pushing the boundaries on both necks, as many of us know, and I never heard his "overuse" of the A&B pedals. The only thing I've noticed of a "well worn path" with Buddy's playing is he often resorted to the "2 below zero" position on the C6th.
Most all players and listeners don't hear or care about this because he was such an amazing player, always innovating and reinventing himself.
Fans of any artists usually don't go to shows to hear what's new, but rather the artist's hits and what they are familiar with
JD, really great writing on this thread, JD. Thank you.
So nice to see forumites contributing their experiences and knowledge to B0b's "library" so, especially newer players have all aspects of steel guitar to refer to.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 8 Oct 2021 8:50 am
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| Chris Templeton wrote: |
Having studied with BE & Jerry Byrd and been to Scotty's a few times, I love the way Jerry was always "connected" to his bar hand with no time to BS with AB pedals until the next idea came along.
Jerry called pedal steel players "pedal pushers", probably for the over reliance on the A & B pedals.
The convenience of pedals to change tunings instead of necks was the early driver for the convenience of pedals.
Hawaiians have "strum" tunings, like B11th, that can be strummed across all the strings, which was probably an incentive to check out pedals. Barney Isaacs had an early Fender pedal steel.
Speedy West thought about pedals to change tunings when he started with pedals.
BE was always pushing the boundaries on both necks, as many of us know, and I never heard his "overuse" of the A&B pedals. The only thing I've noticed of a "well worn path" with Buddy's playing is he often resorted to the "2 below zero" position on the C6th.
Most all players and listeners don't hear or care about this because he was such an amazing player, always innovating and reinventing himself.
Fans of any artists usually don't go to shows to hear what's new, but rather the artist's hits and what they are familiar with
JD, really great writing on this thread, JD. Thank you.
So nice to see forumites contributing their experiences and knowledge to B0b's "library" so, especially newer players have all aspects of steel guitar to refer to. |
Thanks a lot, Chris.
I will TRY my best to be short in adding the following:
I think that JB's "snipes" at pedalists began when they started doing with pedals what he was doing without. And that became dominant with the splash Bud Isaacs made with "Slowly" behind Webb Pierce on his early E9th tuning.
A quote was handed around that suggested that JB joked or complained that; "now (with pedals) ANYONE can play steel guitar!".
When you listen to BE's early, and an other great example Lloyd Green's playing behind a singers like Charley Pride, it was often VERY reminiscent of JB's two string harmonies up and down along the strings using forward and the dreaded backward slants fluidly, just using pedals in conjuncture with bar movement along the strings. Sure, there was the I-IV stationary "moving" sound that made E9th an instant hit too.
Evidently, BE, JDay and all that jumped on the new band wagon took E9th much further and JB came to respect that.
I wished more would chip in on this thread, because it is of interest to me.
I left pedal steel in 1999 and then pedal steel (E9th/U) in 2001 due to travel and a certain frustration with how music changed with time.
I came back now to PSG about now almost a year ago... stripped my U12 gradually of the the E9th side and decided to concentrate on C6th and Jazz, Bebop, Soul-Jazz etc... so, this is a subject near and dear to me.
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 8 Oct 2021 12:30 pm
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I'd suggest getting Buddy's 'Basic C6' course to hear the recommended approach and pedal combos from the man himself. I'm pretty sure Jim at Steel Guitars of North County carries it... not sure who else.
it's worth noting that Buddy left the 4th pedal out of this course altogether. as for what change he preferred on pedal 4, he apparently switched between the more common whole-tone raise on strings 4 and 8 (A to B) and a half-tone raise on string 6 (E to F). I find the E to F change much more useful for my needs, especially when combined with a whole tone raise on string 10 (C to D). some put both these changes on one pedal but I say separate them if you can.
I went years without having the A to B raises on my guitar but more recently put them on a lever and have gotten plenty of use out of that change too
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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Franklin
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Posted 9 Oct 2021 5:53 am
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Anyone who understands the E9th tuning favors the A&B pedals. Anyone who understands the C6th will favor the diminish pedals. The diminish pedals provides the b3 and b5 interval option. They are crucial for building many chord types. With the F string as the root those pedals become the b7 and b9 also crucial Jazzy intervals.
Also before pedals Jerry Byrd added the F string to the C6th tuning. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 9 Oct 2021 6:10 am
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Scott:
Don't you raise both Es to F? Is that on pedal 4?
I'm raising 10 and 6 (to D and F respectively) on a KL - I would enjoy raising the 3rd to F too. I know pedal 6 does that but, of course, it lowers the E note on the 6th string. I could definitely see me dedicating Pedal 4 to raising both Es to F.
Is anyone out there driving through Naples anytime soon with a bag of tools??? (  )
_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 9 Oct 2021 6:54 am
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hi Rog!
I do raise both Es with pedal 4 but I believe Buddy only raised string 6.
and I would love to be passing through Naples anytime soon... hope you're well my friend.
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 9 Oct 2021 8:10 am
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| Franklin wrote: |
Anyone who understands the E9th tuning favors the A&B pedals. Anyone who understands the C6th will favor the diminish pedals. The diminish pedals provides the b3 and b5 interval option. They are crucial for building many chord types. With the F string as the root those pedals become the b7 and b9 also crucial Jazzy intervals.
Also before pedals Jerry Byrd added the F string to the C6th tuning. |
Jerry Byrd added a bottom C# to his C6th tuning. (the Maj. 3rd degree to A7th)
At first on his 6 string he just tuned his bottom C up to C#. Turning his tuning into the so called "C6th/A7th". That gave him all 3 qualities of chords, Major, minor and Dominant.
Later as he got his first 7 string guitars, he kept C# as the second last so he could strum the A7th chord and added C on the last pos. You could say, that JB laid the foundation for the 8th pedal that was to come almost 20 years later.
The only time I would know that he had an "F" was his C-Diatonic tuning tuned D E F G A B C... which wasn't a C6th tuning nor was the "F" meant to give a IV-chord root as it sits pretty much in the middle of the tuning vs. when it was added into the C6th we know today on the bottom.
I don't KNOW if indeed it was BE who added that bottom IV root F or someone before, but it was there when he established the BE-setup for C6th because it is the root to the 6th pedal change's basic idea (of course, there is a lot of other angles from which that change can be analyzed).
I agree that 5&6 are the basic main changes. They replicate the two main slanted "chords" JB would do on the non pedal to get the 9th and the Dom7th chords respectively on 3 strings holding the top two under the bullet head steady and dropping the over next below half with a slant, and thus these two changes were evolution-wise the logic first choices.
I still think that the 7th pedal two-string full tone raise is the change that opened up C6th to a comparable level as pedals A&B do on E9th. They repeat the tuning every 5 respectively 7 frets, and thats'a completion of the tuning comparable to and complementing the IV-root F string gives relative to the 7th string C root.
And when you look at Maurice Anderson's last LAP steel tuning, he pretty much put that change on his inside-out strings on his 12 string lap, otherwise keeping the basic C6th/FM7 tuning on his bottom 10 strings ending with a D instead of he traditional bottom C. Just like JB he found that he could get the BASIC changes of 5 or 6 (obviously NOT together) by slanting like JB did, but would miss the 7th pedal change if he did not add those notes on top.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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