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Topic: High Bass A Instruction Materials |
Dan Koncelik
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2021 5:54 am |
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Hello,
I am new to the forum and am in search of some learning materials (vintage or otherwise) for high bass A tuning. It is the tuning that has chosen me for now 
The main book i've seen mentioned is the 'Gibson System for Hawaiian Guitar'. The few pages i've of it i've seen have been helpful. It seems quite rare, though. Forum and internet searches for it pull up nothing, basically. Maybe you know of one or have one for sale yourself?
Maybe there are other similar methods/books that are more readily available? Maybe you even have one you are willing to sell?
Please let me know!
Thanks,
Dan |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2021 6:06 am
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You might be able to locate some old Oahu material.
A lot of that was written for A high bass.
I cut my teeth on that tuning and I still play it!
Erv |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 24 Apr 2021 6:29 am
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Is there any particular reason you are looking for A High Bass material specifically?
A High Bass and G High Bass are identical tunings intervallically. The only difference with A High Bass being pitched a whole tone higher:
D B G D B G
5 3 1 5 3 1
E C# A E C# A
5 3 1 5 3 1
G high bass,standard dobro tuning opens up a huge body of material that you can play on A High Bass basically without any issues except transposition if playing with others.
My favorite books in dobro tuning are the late Stacey Philips' Complete Dobro Player and Art of the Hawaiian Guitar Vol 1 & 2. Both are published by Mel Bay.
I remember the intro of the Art of the Hawaiian Guitar stating that, while many of the original performances were in A tuning, he had transcribed them to G for a modern audience for whom G tuning is the status quo.
There are probably tons of other resources for dobro that you could study in almost any style you could wish for.
As far as A High Bass specifically, I believe the old Nick Manoloff Hawaiian Guitar method used it, though I am not positive, and also I can not vouch for its quality, not having studied it myself.
As an aside, I recommend this to anyone interested in steel that has not heard them before:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_miPAindPrsADyJlVWfu-_Ksfi_2ChOnVo
These are my favorite high bass recordings ever. The player is Bob Pauole, who only recorded these 12 tracks in 1932 I believe. It remains some of the best phrasing and instrumental facility on record in my opinion. Just stunning musicianship! Some of these a tabbed out in Art of the Hawaiian Guitar Vol 2 I believe. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2021 7:01 am
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I even tune my dobro the A high bass.
It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks!
Erv |
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David Venzke
From:
SE Michigan, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2021 7:58 am Re: High Bass A Instruction Materials
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| Dan Koncelik wrote: |
Hello,
I am new to the forum and am in search of some learning materials (vintage or otherwise) for high bass A tuning. |
Hello, Dan, and welcome to the SGF forum. You have definitely come to the right place. Now the question is, how deep do you want to dive?
I have the Gibson four part Hawaiian course, and to accompany it a tote with 30 pounds of various levels of Oahu instruction material and another tote with 35 pounds of Hawaiian Guitar Arrangements (many of these contain multiple tunings including High Bass A).
Send me a private message (PM) and we can decide how much you might want to take possession of for now.
 |
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Jouni Karvonen
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Dan Koncelik
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2021 12:51 pm
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Thanks everyone for so many great replies! (Indeed i am in the right place) David, i have pm'ed you about your book trove....
| Quote: |
| Sebastian Müller from Berlin plays his National Tricone (1931) in hi bass A and has made instructions of those which can be ordered as downloads. |
Ha! I've taken my one and only lesson with sebastian! In fact i chose high bass A tuning after watching his videos (not that i'd ever sound as good, but i have a similar instrument (a tricone resonator) and i gravitate towards that (jazzy swing) era of music.
| Quote: |
G high bass,standard dobro tuning opens up a huge body of material that you can play on A High Bass basically without any issues except transposition if playing with others.
My favorite books in dobro tuning are the late Stacey Philips' Complete Dobro Player and Art of the Hawaiian Guitar Vol 1 & 2. Both are published by Mel Bay.
I remember the intro of the Art of the Hawaiian Guitar stating that, while many of the original performances were in A tuning, he had transcribed them to G for a modern audience for whom G tuning is the status quo. |
Yes, Amen! Having a high bass A tuned instrument has led me to look at dobro players, videos, books, etc and i'm slowly realizing that dobro is way more than bluegrass—not that there's anything wrong with bluegrass, it's just that i'm not interested in it. The Stacy Philips books do look interesting though! Any suggestions of dobro players performing in non-standard ways welcome... 
Ok, but wouldn't tuning from high bass A to low bass A make your two bottom strings unplayably floppy? On the 6th string, going from A down to E, i'd think almost definitely, as it is a long way down! C# down to A on the 5th string might be at the outer limits of spongy, but maybe just about acceptable.... |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 24 Apr 2021 7:06 pm
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For whatever tuning you use you need to use proper string gauges for optimal string tension. Sometimes That means restringing as in this case
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Wally Pfeifer
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2021 9:12 pm A tuning
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Dan,
You might want to check with Michael Lee Allen who posted several pages on music he has for sale. Check back a couple months on SGF for his list. |
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Wally Pfeifer
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2021 9:17 pm A bass tuning
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Dan,
Go back to 4 Apr 2021 on the for sale post.
See Michael Lee Allen. |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 3 May 2021 10:59 pm
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| Dan Koncelik wrote: |
Thanks everyone for so many great replies! (Indeed i am in the right place) David, i have pm'ed you about your book trove....
| Quote: |
| Sebastian Müller from Berlin plays his National Tricone (1931) in hi bass A and has made instructions of those which can be ordered as downloads. |
Ha! I've taken my one and only lesson with sebastian! In fact i chose high bass A tuning after watching his videos (not that i'd ever sound as good, but i have a similar instrument (a tricone resonator) and i gravitate towards that (jazzy swing) era of music.
| Quote: |
G high bass,standard dobro tuning opens up a huge body of material that you can play on A High Bass basically without any issues except transposition if playing with others.
My favorite books in dobro tuning are the late Stacey Philips' Complete Dobro Player and Art of the Hawaiian Guitar Vol 1 & 2. Both are published by Mel Bay.
I remember the intro of the Art of the Hawaiian Guitar stating that, while many of the original performances were in A tuning, he had transcribed them to G for a modern audience for whom G tuning is the status quo. |
Yes, Amen! Having a high bass A tuned instrument has led me to look at dobro players, videos, books, etc and i'm slowly realizing that dobro is way more than bluegrass—not that there's anything wrong with bluegrass, it's just that i'm not interested in it. The Stacy Philips books do look interesting though! Any suggestions of dobro players performing in non-standard ways welcome...
Ok, but wouldn't tuning from high bass A to low bass A make your two bottom strings unplayably floppy? On the 6th string, going from A down to E, i'd think almost definitely, as it is a long way down! C# down to A on the 5th string might be at the outer limits of spongy, but maybe just about acceptable.... |
Hey Dan, hope you are doing good : ) !
Regarding A-Lowbass:
You can definitely detune to this with your A-Hibass stringset, it is a bit slack but I do it from time to time. But the Hibass-Tuning is really better suited if you play mostly solos, the Lowbass tuning is super cool for the self accompaniment style and blues playing.
_________________
https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 4 May 2021 2:34 am
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The best instructional material you are going to find are the old Sol Hoopii acoustic recordings. You may find a transcription or two online to get you started but then you can work by ear. I used to have a transcription of An Orange Grove In California and maybe a few others up on YouTube, I don’t recall. But the stuff is out there. Just slow it down and try to hear what’s going on. It gets easier every time you do it and is the best way to learn in my opinion. Steeling from the masters.
_________________
http://www.steelinstruction.com/
http://mikeneer.com |
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Dan Koncelik
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 5 May 2021 5:05 am
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| Quote: |
Hey Dan, hope you are doing good : ) !
Regarding A-Lowbass:
You can definitely detune to this with your A-Hibass stringset, it is a bit slack but I do it from time to time. But the Hibass-Tuning is really better suited if you play mostly solos, the Lowbass tuning is super cool for the self accompaniment style and blues playing. |
Aloha, Sebastian!
Thank you for the well wishes and the helpful information. Much of the instructional material I received from Dave included at least some low bass A material, as it seemed to be a more popular tuning at the time (mid-late 30's). The one I was really wanting, the Gibson System (1937) starts off in low bass A for one volume, then switches to high bass A in volumes 2 and 3 and finishes in E7 tuning in volume 4. I guess, like any business (especially during the depression) they were chasing popular trends/players  And we know how quickly this happens in music (and of course, still is happening 
There is no mention of changing string gauges between the different tunings in any of the books...maybe they didn't think a player would need to or that if they did, they'd know implicitly, without the need to spell it out
Or maybe just a more 'chin up' attitude: 'Deal with some floppiness—it comes with the instrument'... 
| Quote: |
PostPosted: 4 May 2021 2:34am Post subject:
The best instructional material you are going to find are the old Sol Hoopii acoustic recordings. You may find a transcription or two online to get you started but then you can work by ear. I used to have a transcription of An Orange Grove In California and maybe a few others up on YouTube, I don’t recall. But the stuff is out there. Just slow it down and try to hear what’s going on. It gets easier every time you do it and is the best way to learn in my opinion. Steeling from the masters. |
An excellent suggestion, Mike, one that would never have occurred to me in the same way a Mars landing would probably never occur to an isolated Amazonian tribe (but look out for those SpaceX-ian tribes 
Guy Cundell's thesis, which led me to want to acquire the Gibson System seeing that at least part of it was written for high bass A, also contains some choice transcriptions in the same tuning:'The Hula Blues' by the Genial Hawaiians, 'Stack O'Lee Blues' by Sol Hoopii.
I've been using these short excerpts as exercises to build some technique and vocabulary—very helpful! So, really I've been steeling from someone steeling from the masters |
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Tom Keller
From:
Greeneville, TN, USA
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Posted 5 May 2021 10:04 am
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| David, Those Gibson Hawaiian Guitar courses sure bring back a lot of memories from my teenage years. |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 5 May 2021 8:46 pm
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Hello Dan, glad to hear somebody else is interested in the old tunings. I'm 83 and took Hawaiian guitar lessons in 1948 and that's how I learned to play!!
The "high bass" tuning is E C# A E C# A
The "low bass" tuning is E C# A E A E
So, the two bass strings are basically (no pun intended) reversed. Usually, the gauges are flexible enough just to retune them.
At the risk of being arrested for patent infringement, I've attached a couple of pieces that just happened to be on my desk.
In those days, as somebody mentioned, OAHU published tons of music, mostly for beginners. There were "folios" of music, my memory is beginning to "fade", I can't remember them off hand.
See your private mail. Keep pickin'.
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 6 May 2021 7:08 am
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As you will note in the above.
When you weren't picking the melody, you would strum.
Erv |
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Lloyd Graves
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 8 May 2021 4:44 am
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Hi Dan,
I've been working with Sebastian via zoom and it's been great.
There are the two Stacy Phillips books from Mel Bay, both of which deal primarily with high bass A. I have them but haven't tried them because Sebastian's kept me busy enough. It doesn't seem like they are sequential, so you could probably just choose volume 2 if the songs look more interesting. And I've noticed that every few days Mel Bay has a different discount code, ranging from 10% to 30%. And free shipping over $35.
On a side note, there are a few tunes at the end of Volume 1 that don't really list the tuning. If anyone has a definitive list of tunings for volume 1, I'd appreciate it.
Last edited by Lloyd Graves on 8 May 2021 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 8 May 2021 6:31 am
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I started on Hawaiian guitar with the A high bass tuning.
I never really got into the different tunings until I got ahold of this Jerry Byrd book. He started out with the A tuning, then went to the E tuning and wound up with the C6 tuning. I thought that C6 tuning was pure heavenly!
Erv
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 8 May 2021 7:39 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| I thought that C6 tuning was pure heavenly! |
Yes; indeed it is! |
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