Pedal Bar - to - Leg connection

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I got into this subject on a different post but it interests me enough to merit its own thread.

All steel guitars have always had a short list of engineering problems seeking engineering solutions, ranging from how to convert pedal motion into a string pull to how to connect a pedal assembly to the guitar. Historically there have been a variety of ways to get there. Some ideas ended up as evolutionary dead ends. Other ideas are great but never caught on. And others are the industry standard.

On the subject of pedal bar/leg connection:

A vast majority of guitars use this method (or at least, every single steel I've ever owned does).

But I recently saw a cool variation from Chuck Back at Desert Rose. The bar is in an indent and once set, it will go nowhere. (can't find the picture Mad

...)

This Marrs is in my shop right now. I love the idea. The rack sits on the floor. The legs stand inside of the rack, fully bottomed out. That rubber foot is not the leg -- it is the bottom of the rack.
Was this the Marrs method or was it just one idea Duane had among many?

I seem to recall that Mullen has something a little different? I might be wrong.
And it wouldn't surprise me at all if MSA has something else going on. They've excelled at rethinking hardware connections.

I'd love to see other ideas that are in current use or are no longer with us.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I haven't quite figured how the Marrs method works, but it looks kind of similar to a Remington pedal steel I bought 30 yrs. ago.

The pedal bar was attached permanently to the leg inserts about 3 or 4 inches. So to attach and remove, you would open the clutches and pull the entire rack with stubs attached.

Solid attachment that way.

I'll see if I can find a photo. Here's an illustratio:

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Here's a detail. You just pop this onto the leg.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I see. Thanks. Concerning the Mullen method, all the ones I've owned were 90s vintage and they all used the conventional method as in your first pic. They used a different type of clamp though. A chunk of aluminum instead of the plate.

They may have had another method in their earlier issues, I dunno.

Gene Tani · From: Pac NW

also Doug Earnest's method on Stage 1 and Encores, drill hole thru leg and put the securing bolt thru that, no sliding plate necessary.
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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Yes! Thank you. I've had my hands on two Encores. I knew I was forgetting something.

My first steel was a BMI in 1983 and no amount of tightening would keep the pedal bar from sliding up. Years later I ended up gluing some 300 grit sandpaper to the face side of the sliding piece. It works. Some people might object to the abuse of the leg surface. I'm much more interested in stability.
As a beginner, I was not aware of the problem but I was certainly puzzled by how the pedals were sometimes high off the floor and sometimes they were scraping it. An unnecessary and unfortunate problem. I hate tightening the wing nut on that slider as much as it sometimes needs to be tightened.

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

This Marrs is in my shop right now. I love the idea. The rack sits on the floor. The legs stand inside of the rack, fully bottomed out. That rubber foot is not the leg -- it is the bottom of the rack.
Was this the Marrs method or was it just one idea Duane had among many?

Jon,

Duane was the first steel player I met when I came to town in 83, we became good friends and I hung out at his shop and saw a lot of cool ideas and inventions that he came up with. He once told me that he invented the Pack-A-Seat as he called it. I have never heard anyone dispute that.

I was there the day that his Dad kicked the cat food can across the floor and Duane heard the noise it made and that led to the Cat Can Guitar!

My Marrs came with that set up on the pedal bar, he used that method on a lot of guitars.

Duane was such a cool guy! I really miss him!

This is a guitar that Duane and I built using his cabinet, endplates, and keyhead, a Bud changer, and Super Pro hex shaft parts. The neck was from an old rope inlay Madison guitar, and we used a Super Pro pedal rack and pedals. 5 X 5.

Fun project! Probably the only formica Pro-I in existence!

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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Thanks for that Duane Marrs talk. I've heard stories from a couple of people including Jeff Surratt. I believe I would have liked Duane. I get the impression that along with his great ideas (I think this pedal bar rig is brilliant) there were a lot of one-offs because he just had to try stuff. This Marrs I have here uses ball joints (the kind that the pedal rods hook up to) as the pushers on the reversing levers. It's ingenious. But Jeff says that Duane felt that they would be too fragile with too much chance of shearing off and they did not make the cut as a long term design. Which is another point in his favor -- having the integrity to reject one's own idea.

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

Andrew Goulet · Posted 5 Apr 2021 7:37 am

On my Marlen, the bolt goes through the pedal bar and then through a hole in the leg. It's pretty solid. I can't imagine it shifting. Maybe the bolt would shear off one day from years and years of stomping?
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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

My MSA has a pressure like activated piece that just pulls across the leg,,has a spring to adjust tension,,mine is pretty tight for these old arthritic fingers. The bar is wedged pretty tight between the rubber tip and the clutch. Kinda like getting the fulcrum point on vise grips.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I like that Bolt-thru-the-leg method.
I have considered mod-ing my Sierra Session to be like that.
I don't want there to be any slippage or looseness in any direction.
I saw a nice Carriage Bolt that would be good (and look good), I think.
But yes it requires a fastener of some type on the other side.

Al Evans · From: Austin, Texas, USA

I don't think anybody's mentioned the current MSA pedal bar connection, which is quick, precise, and absolutely consistent (like many other things on the guitar). The pedal bar fits into a specific space on the leg, and an over-center clamping mechanism locks it positively in place.

https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/0868020e-b3cb-4e72-8705-1099ae96c615/50fea168-d27e-4027-8787-d544098fa1ac.jpg

--Al Evans
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

Al, that's what I was trying to describe, guess I wasn't using the right terminology,,LOL.

Pete,,it's adjustable,,can be loosed or tightened.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

I used to gig a 1974 MSA that used the hole drilled through the leg with bolt and wing nut attachment.

Carried a little bag in my seat with about 4 extra wing nuts. If a nut fell and went into a dark corner on the stage. I just grabbed an extra 1 out of the bag and set the guitar up. Sometimes I found it later, Some times the Gremlin got to keep it.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Bill Bassett · From: Papamoa New Zealand

I hated the odd clamp thing on the Sierra Olympic so I simply drilled holes in the legs and affixed bolts and use wing nuts. Much easier.

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

New Desert Rose attachment

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Dan Kelly · From: Boston, MA

Here is the pedal bar connection on the Ross Shafer Sierra...

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Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Does anyone remember the old Fender 1000 leg configuration and the metal plate that turned on a fulcrum point? It was fairly unique.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I prefer the sliding plate version over the bolt through the leg. A couple of reasons why.

My first 2 guitars were ZBs. They used the bolt through the leg. On both guitars, after putting the wingnut on one side, I accidently let go of the pedal bar at the other leg. The pedal bar went swinging like a door opening. It severely bent the bolt on the leg I already had the wing nut on. It was a real bitch to repair.

Too easy to lose those wing nuts. Been there done that too many times.
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