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Topic: 1974 Emmons facelift |
Adam Przybyla
From:
Chicago, IL
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Posted 30 Mar 2021 7:02 pm |
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Are we still arguing this? Is it really so unfathomable that, at some point during nearly 20 years of production, the factory may have attached the necks differently? It seems that most every other aspect of the guitar (changer, pedals, rear apron, tuners, nameplate, etc, etc...) was altered at one time or another. Why not try fastening the necks from above? Clearly we have multiple examples of such a thing, and that scenario seems far more likely to me than several random Emmons owners going through the trouble of removing the fretboards, drilling and countersinking holes through the tops of the necks, re-mounting them from above, plugging the old holes, re-flocking the bottoms of the cabinets, replacing the fretboards, reassembling everything... And to what end?
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Looking good Adam, nice work! How do you like the tone?
Mike D
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Mike, I love it, although I haven't had an opportunity this past year to get out and crank it up to really see what it can do. It really is a pleasure to just sit behind it and play it unplugged (in all of its non-factory-authorized rebuilt glory). |
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Peter Leavenworth
From:
Madbury, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2021 5:36 am 1974 Emmons
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Beautiful work, Scott, looking forward to seeing the completed renovation.
Peter
_________________
2008 Zum D-10, 1996 Mullens PRP D-10, 1974 Emmons D-10, 1976 Emmons D-10, early 70s Emmons GS-10, Milkman Sideman head w/Telonics 15" speaker, 1966 Fender Super Reverb, 1970 Fender Dual Showman head, Wechter/Scheerhorn and Beard Dobros, 1962 Supro lap steels, Gibson 1939 RB-11 banjo, Gibson 1978 RB-250
banjo......and way too much more |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2021 7:52 am
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So, how do you adjust the neck tension without removing the fretboards?
An Emmons, unlike most other pedal steel guitars, is not simply a cabinet with parts attached to it. It is constructed differently. If there are several “qualified mechanics†who want to rebuild an Emmons a different way and the owner is happy, great! Remember John Fabian’s video on an “expert restoration†of 764005? He glued the two cabinet necks together. He brags in the video about reapplying the original mica and shows he needs a laminate trimmer to trim off the excess mica. Huh????
I bought the guitar, had it sent to Mike Cass, and had it correctly redone from ground up.
Do what you want to your guitars. Heck, use fifty screws to mount those wood necks if you want. A trained chimp can flock over any mistakes.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Scott Moon
From:
Canyon Lake, TX
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Posted 31 Mar 2021 2:46 pm
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I am well aware of Mike Cass and his work. I have no doubt he does a great job. I use Rick because I've known him for years, I've played his guitars, he knows how to set them up, and he is close enough I can drive my guitar to him in an hour and spend the day. I don't have to pay outrageous shipping costs plus insurance. I don't need an "Authorized" repair card (which in these days of computers can be faked).
I got my first steel in 1978 and I've owned Sho Buds, MSA's, Carters, and this is my Fourth Emmons of which 3 were push pulls. I know what they should sound like and I know how they should feel when you play one. This guitar sounds killer and that's why I have kept it all these years. I know it is ORIGINAL and you can say all you want. You can also go elsewhere and show your expertise (or ignorance) There is no reason for you to hyjack this post. Geese leave it alone already. It was a simple post about MY restoration. If you don't like what you see....there are a vast number of post on this forum you can hyjack if you wish. Have a nice day  |
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Leon Champion
From:
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2021 3:33 pm Emmos
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| MR Scott. for what it's worth. I went with a friend to Mike Cass with his Emmons for repair . when we picked it up he DID NOT GET A FACTORY REPAIR CARD . ALL HE GOT WAS A REPAIR BILL. SOME PEOPLE JUST LIKE TO RUN THEIRE MOUTH ABOUT WHAT THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. I LIKE WHAT YOU'ER DOING . AND IF SOME ONE DOSEN'T LIKE IT THEY SHOULD KEEP THEIR MOUTH SHUT. |
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Scott Moon
From:
Canyon Lake, TX
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Posted 31 Mar 2021 5:41 pm
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A BIG Thank you to all who have given compliments on my refurb. That's all this was about. Just good clean fun.
Life is too short to be around negative people. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 10:08 am
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Scott,Man that's some serious work you've done on that Emmons"Just beautiful"I've only been lucky enough to own one Emmons GS 10" student guitar"a long time ago.I knew Rick Price a little bit in the 70's when he played for Mo Bandy,I was with B.W. Stevenson,Rick is one of those great Emmons players...Keep doing what you're doing,I'm digging it!!
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 10:15 am
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Leon, why would your friend get the Factory record card?
When you buy a car, or have the dealer install Factory mudflaps, does the Factory hand over to you the Factory records for your vehicle?
Again, I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Bill Lowe
From:
Connecticut
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 10:22 am
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I can go to the dealer and and inquire or ask to see the records.. Stop with that nonsense
_________________
JCH D10, 71 D10 P/p fat back, Telonics TCA 500C--12-,Fender JBL Twin, Josh Swift signature. |
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Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 10:41 am
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Chris,
Why do you keep going on and on about Emmons guitars as if there’s some special sauce that makes them tick and you and Mike Cass are the only ones in the know about these guitars. There had better be people in line to work on them. I have seen outstanding work done by so many folks. I am qualified to say that as I have done complete rebuilds on them as well. They are steel guitars. They come apart. They go back together. When you and Mike Cass are no longer on this earth, will guys quit playing them? Hell no! I love my two push pulls and have them precisely fine tuned and keep playing them. They’re awesome guitars and there’s way way more than one guy that can keep them going. |
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Leon Champion
From:
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 11:17 am Emmons
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| Chris . I don't need you to explain any thing to me . |
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Tim Johnson
From:
Cadiz, KY, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 11:25 am
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| I didn’t get a card either when Cass did my guitar couple yrs ago. 😀 |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 1:50 pm
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At least this post has publicized what kind has been done to certain guitars if they ever come up for sale.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Scott Moon
From:
Canyon Lake, TX
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 2:04 pm
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I believe it has publicized a few other things as well...just sayin....Giddy-up!
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Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 2:05 pm
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So when you and Mike Cass are no longer around, should the rest of us toss our PP’s in the fire since nobody “authorized†can work on them. I commend Clem Schmitz for coming out with a PP manual and two videos to help people understand them and work on them. Did you catch my phrase, “Help†? That’s a helluva lot more than you’ve offered. A few years ago when I was getting my feet wet with the mechanics of the PP, I reached out to you to buy a couple bell cranks. You told me you had “coffee cans†full of them but they were reserved for “Factory Authorized†people. You can keep your factory authorized parts. Take your negativity and go somewhere else. My door is still open to help PP owners that need help.
I’m done with this thread |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 2:14 pm
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Looks like what this post has really publicized is that there are just 2-3 people,,maybe just 1 in the whole steel guitar community,,that know the most intricate secrets and details about Emmons guitars and everyone else is ignorant,,,,and that Scott Moon is going to have a very beautiful and obviously very desirable guitar.
Last edited by Sonny Jenkins on 1 Apr 2021 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 2:17 pm
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Steve, I did not say I had "coffee cans" of them. I have close to four gallons of them. I don't know where you got coffee cans?
As I have said throughout this post, any of you can do anything you wish to your guitars. Relax.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Adam Przybyla
From:
Chicago, IL
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 2:22 pm
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Alright, let's stop feeding the troll.
Sorry about your thread, Scott. I can't wait to see some more progress. |
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Scott Moon
From:
Canyon Lake, TX
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 3:19 pm
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More to come. I just finished the lacquer so I am waiting for it to cure. I'll be polishing aluminum this weekend. I will try to get some updated photos here soon.
Hope all have a blessed weekend and Happy Easter Egg!!
Scott |
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Don Mogle
From:
Round Rock, TX, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2021 4:10 pm
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Scott,
If possible, please detail your method to polish your Emmons. Looking forward to seeing the final restored guitar. Great job! |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2021 8:54 am
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Scott, that looks awesome. Wish I knew how to do stains and wood refinishing but I don’t and too late to learn.
I have replaced mica on several guitars and they came out fine. I did use a laminate trimmer but I call it a router. Basic counter kitchen counter top know how, just smaller on a steel guitar. Hardest part is finding the correct thickness mica.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Scott Moon
From:
Canyon Lake, TX
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Posted 5 Apr 2021 8:59 am
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| Lacquer finish is not that hard to do. It’s more time consuming than anything. Spray numerous light coats then let it cure. Wet sand and polish. I’ve done several telecasters and it’s something that you can’t rush. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2021 10:09 am
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| . Hardest part is finding the correct thickness mica. |
Early Emmons used horizontal grade fire retardant Formica brand mica. Then they transitioned to a slightly thinner horizontal grade non-fire retardant -- the mica that is whitish under the color, meaning if you sanded or scratched through the color you got a whitish color. The fire retardant is very dark brown -- almost black -- under the color and on the back. Basketweave was thicker mica. I think denim is too. There is about a 0.009" variance range in Formica horizontal grade non-fire retardant laminate that Emmons used. Different batches vary, I guess. Vertical grade mica is thinner than horizontal grade, I imagine because vertical grade is used on walls and does not get the same impact as a countertop and it is easier to handle and apply on vertical surfaces if it is lighter. But the variance of mica thickness does not really matter, unless you make the mistake of gluing a D10 cabinet together down the middle. But, to each, his own.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2021 1:06 pm
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Never seen one glued and I sure didn’t glue them. Wood screws held it together on all ones I’ve seen but the number of screws varied between years.
Yes Chris, it took several phone calls to find mica close to same thickness with the dark core but finally found some in Houston and they only had one 4x8 piece which was plenty for what I needed. Believe it’s thickness was like .046 which is thickest I found compared to the .054 that was on the guitar. It worked fine and went on very good and looked good.
It was a 67 Emmons that had holes drilled in it everywhere and for what, I don’t know.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2021 1:20 pm
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The dimension variance you mention is correct. Calling around to different Formica brand distributors is the key. When Formica stopped making horizontal grade Rosewood I called every city in North America i could think of looking for the sheets they had in stock. Shipping is not bad because the rolled sheets weigh so little.I even found some White Castle light blue and some semi gloss black boomerang pattern mica from the late Fifties.early Sixties which I have yet to use. We had the same mica in orange when I was a kid.
When someone replaced the Emmons decal with a screwed on badge, having the fire retardant mica helps. After filling the screw holes with black "cyano" you have a little more leeway in flattening and smoothing the patches without raising a milky white from underneath the black surface color.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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