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How do you get the middle G on E9th?
Traditional knee lever raise on string 7
21%
 21%  [ 23 ]
Half stop on string 7 knee lever raise
8%
 8%  [ 9 ]
Lower string 6 on a pedal
3%
 3%  [ 4 ]
Lower string 6 on a knee lever
19%
 19%  [ 21 ]
Combine string 6 full-step lower with B pedal
32%
 32%  [ 35 ]
Pull string 7 behind the bar with fingers
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
I don't have a middle G note
11%
 11%  [ 12 ]
Other? Please explain.
3%
 3%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 109

Author Topic:  Middle G on E9th?
b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 8:26 am    
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Another topic (https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=364230) got me wondering statistically where we are about the middle G note on E9th, so I decided to start a poll.

update: I forgot to accommodate people who have more than one way to get a G. Embarassed Choose the one you use most.
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Last edited by b0b on 28 Nov 2020 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 9:15 am    
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I tried life without a G change. I barely survived. I like it on LKV. (It does both 7 and 1).

Last edited by Fred Treece on 28 Nov 2020 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 9:24 am    
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Actually in 3 ways... too much? lol

Half stop raise on 7
Half lower on 6 & 9 with a knee lever, but moving that to the floor just left of 0 pedal where I lower 5 & 10 a half
Whole lower of 6 on Vertical split with B
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Larry Bressington


From:
The beautiful sunsets of Nebraska
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 10:22 am    
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I'm in the no G camp, also no raise on 7, it's a little bit more work being without it, but it's also less hardware and dial up, sometimes i struggle with my own justification of why i like the idea of less, but i sort of like the challenge of a primitive set up.
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Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 10:44 am    
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Larry Bressington wrote:
...i sort of like the challenge of a primitive set up.

Me too. I went from an 8x6 D-10 to a 3x1 single-neck and a gaggle of lap steels without missing a beat (well... almost). Tuning is exponentially more simplified, and 99% of what I want to play, I can still play. Big bonus: my back has never been happier.
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Norman Evans


From:
Tennessee
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 11:24 am    
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I lower 6 to G on RKL. With pedals down, I release the B pedal and activate the RKL for a 7th chord. I also activate the RKL and slide the bar up 2 frets for the same thing I get with the B&C pedals. Also get the minor.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 12:15 pm    
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I've been raising both F#'s to G on LKV since maybe a year into my PSG journey. Love the change. I also lower and split string 6 to get that middle G.
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John Swain


From:
Newberry,SC
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 1:36 pm    
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I lower 3+6 to G on LKV, and raise 1,2+7 with feel stop G on LKR !
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 1:44 pm    
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Great subject for a poll - this could run and run!
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Scott Swartz


From:
St. Louis, MO
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 2:35 pm    
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Lower both 3 and 6 to G on pedal zero, and added the string 9 D to C# to the pedal ala Randy Beavers for the C6 pedal 6 like change. Also raise string 7 F# to G for pedals down dom7.
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Marty Broussard


From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 3:05 pm    
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I like this discussion. I am looking at where to put it back on....
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Brint Hannay

 

From:
Maryland, USA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 3:27 pm    
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I lower string 6 and string 3 to G on LKL front, and raise string 7, but not string 1, to G on LKV. (I like having the F# on 1 with the pedals-down A7 as a melody note or for the A13 chord.)

On my LDG with only 4 knees, I have a half stop on the string 6 whole-step lower, LKR.
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Marc Jenkins


From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 3:32 pm    
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I submitted ‘half-stop on knee lever raise’ as I use that more - just love the dissonance with AB down! But also lower 3&6 half step on a pedal.
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Kelcey ONeil

 

From:
Pageland, S.C.
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 3:38 pm    
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This is a setup I did for an Emmons Push Pull. The RKL raises 1 and 7 a half and whole tone, with the half tone on a feel stop. The stop tension is adjustable, with the half tone notes independently adjustable from each other.

Also, you can coax the Push Pull to do the AB pedals down, and lower the 6th a whole tone as well. The first setup is a bit more versatile I think though.
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 5:12 pm    
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I play a D6th tuning with E9th pedals added on the left, so it's actually an F note, not a G. I have the lever that lowers the string a full step (LKR), and the split combination with the B pedal. I use that mostly for 7th chords. The lever also raises the first string half a step.

But I also have the standard C6th pedal P6 that lowers E to Eb (in my case F# to F). I use it mostly for minor chords and of course for the usual C6th applications.

Since I use the split combination more often, that's what I chose in the poll. Also, it's what I have on my experimental D9th guitar.
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 5:13 pm    
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Fred Treece wrote:
I tried life without a G change. I barely survived.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Larry Bressington


From:
The beautiful sunsets of Nebraska
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 5:44 pm    
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I wonder when this became the norm, I don’t remember any of the old boys doing it looking through their co-peds, Lloyd, Hal, Sonny, Weldon, slide up three frets hit A pedal, slide down two frets hit A/B pedal or stay right where you are at and mute 3rd tone playing root and 5th....Anyone know who started the 6th string drop?
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Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 6:04 pm    
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Larry Bressington wrote:
Who started the 6th string drop?
It's always been my impression the G# to F# drop on string 6 was pioneered by the Big E. It's featured prominently in the old BE-E9 course released by the Emmons Guitar Company in the '70s.


Most certainly someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Larry Bressington


From:
The beautiful sunsets of Nebraska
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 8:42 pm    
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Thanks Jack, I was thinking it might of been a Buddy thing, appreciate the info my friend.
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 28 Nov 2020 9:29 pm    
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On S12U I lower all three G#'s to G.
At first I did this on Pedal-0.
Now I have a RKL-2 that is close to the front apron that does this change.
I use it in the same way you would make a G barre chord into a Gminor on guitar.
I also use it with AB down, releasing the B pedal and engaging the G#-to-G to go to a 7th chord.
I also have a few cool licks that I like to do where it gives me the right note in the right place at the right time.
It's nice to have but not necessary. I have some Steels that don't have it at all.
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Jim Fiegen


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 29 Nov 2020 5:36 am     middle G change
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I wrote a blog post on the subject that might be of interest....
https://jimfiegen.com/the-g-to-g-change/
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 29 Nov 2020 6:44 am    
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Well, I never really use it as a scale note, but I do have it on a vertical.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 29 Nov 2020 7:04 am    
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I'm actually about to make some changes to my E9 setup (I play the Day setup). I currently have:
Tab:

    LKL1  LKL2  LKV  LKR  C     B     A     RKL    RKR

F#.........G#....G
D#.........E................................D/C#
G#..............................A
E....D#...............F...F#
B.........................C#..........C#
G#..............................A..................F#
F#..............G
E....D#...............F
D............................................C#
B.....................................C#


But, I am thinking of changing up the the F# string changes. I will be eliminating the F# to G changes on LKV, and moving the 1st and 2nd string changes to LKV and possibly adding the 7th string F# to G# on LKV also. When playing licks and runs using the 1st string F# to G, it's about 50/50 that I use the lever or just use my middle finger behind the bar and pull string 1 to G (I could never get good at pulling string 7 behind the bar though). It's faster than hitting a lever, and to tell you the truth, it looks pretty darn cool. Whoa! I'm pretty sure that I could hit the vertical half way if needed to get the G notes. I tried a half stop on the vertical once, but it was too hard to distinguish where it was. It's much easier on left or right moving levers.

My proposed setup:
Tab:

    LKL1  LKL2  LKV   LKR   C    B    A   RKL   RKR

F#..............G#
D#..............E.........................C#/D
G#...............................A
E....D#................F...F#
B.........Bb/C-(SPLIT).....C#........C#
G#...............................A...............F#
F#..............G#
E....D#................F
D.........................................C#
B.........Bb (NO SPLIT)..............C#

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Jack Stoner


From:
New Port Richey Florida
Post  Posted 29 Nov 2020 7:38 am    
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Larry Bressington wrote:
I wonder when this became the norm, I don’t remember any of the old boys doing it looking through their co-peds, Lloyd, Hal, Sonny, Weldon, slide up three frets hit A pedal, slide down two frets hit A/B pedal or stay right where you are at and mute 3rd tone playing root and 5th....Anyone know who started the 6th string drop?


Johnny Cox added the 7th string F# to G to my Steel in 72. Told me Buddy Charleton called it his Ernest Tubb lever.
You can get the Ernest Tubb lick all on one fret, don't have to move the bar with this change. Works for the Emmons lick he used on "Don't you ever get tired of hurting me".
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Charles Kurck


From:
Living in Arkansas but Heaven is home
Post  Posted 29 Nov 2020 8:20 am     7th Chords
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I currently raise string 7 from F# to G.  
If using 3 picks and playing a 5, 6, 8 string grip for the A chord with pedals down, 
a thumb rake will give a full 4 note chord with the 7th tone on the 7th string.  

Using the same 5, 6, 8 string grip with pedals down, 
lower string 6 from A to G and you lose the root note
but I think this is a popular choice because it's a simple grip and it sounds good.  

Another option that I've not tried but have been considering is raising string 8 three semitones from E to G.  
It would still be the easy 5, 6, 8 string grip but you would lose the 5th tone instead of the root.  
This would give a movement similar to the pedals up 7th chord that raises string 10 from B to D.  
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