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Topic: Buddy Emmons Sustain |
Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2020 7:06 pm |
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So I’ve been watching a bit of Buddy Emmons on YouTube. He seems to have lots of sustain regardless which guitar he plays. Anybody know the secret?
Thanks
Mack
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76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2020 7:32 pm
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Buddy had an extremely strong positive pick attack and he knew how to maximize it with a great command of his volume pedal.
_________________
Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 15 Nov 2020 8:51 pm
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Along with what Dick said, Buddy wasn't afraid to turn his amp up! There's a chart in a post from years back showing each player's amp settings at one of the I.S.G.C. shows, and Buddy is shown to be running his amp volume much higher than all the other players. (Limiting your maximum amp volume also limits the maximum amount of "volume pedal sustain" you have available.) I must add that some players have the mistaken impression that running the amp volume high makes you play too loud, but this is true only if you don't properly use the volume pedal. We can use the volume pedal as a "sustain pedal" in addition to controlling our volume. My amp volumes are always set to "max", even when I'm playing quietly at home. This also helps me to get a more consistent tone, since amps may respond differently when their volumes are set differently.
Proper bar technique (vibrato and proper pressure) can also help to sustain a note or chord longer. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2020 8:23 am
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Donny,
Is this the chart you were referring to?
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Nov 2020 9:56 am
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That list is an amazing historical document regardless of the numbers! Which year was it?
As to the sustain thing, it's a no-brainer to run the amp high and the pedal low - all you need is the guts and control to do it!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2020 10:33 am
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Thanks all for the response.
Ok, run the amp hot, and utilize the VP. Got it. Now if I can control it! ha!
Also noticed that Buddy does not seam to put much pressure on the bar. (seen some players really push down on the strings). Would that have anything at all to do with it?
Thanks
Mack
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Nov 2020 11:27 am
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| Mack Quinney wrote: |
Also noticed that Buddy does not seam to put much pressure on the bar. (seen some players really push down on the strings). Would that have anything at all to do with it?
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Bar pressure should vary, depending on where you are on the neck and the number of strings you're covering. Also keep in mind that increased pressure can increase volume slightly (due to the strings being pushed closer to the pickup) and that might lead to tonal changes or even a slight overdrive if the strings get too close to the polepieces. This is a fine point, for sure, but probably still deserves mention.
Of course, It goes without saying that bar pressure can also affect tuning and intonation...but I'll say it anyway.  |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2020 8:14 am
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| One of the times that I took a lesson from Buddy he said that I picked too hard. He also maintained that the last 1 1/2" of the bar (at the nose end) was the tonal key for him. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2020 10:01 am
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| Jim Palenscar wrote: |
| One of the times that I took a lesson from Buddy he said that I picked too hard. He also maintained that the last 1 1/2" of the bar (at the nose end) was the tonal key for him. |
Fascinating, Pali!
For anyone: I've always thought I heard a compressor in Big E's playing, any truth to that? I know he was an effect user and experimenter, I'll try to cite specific audio later.
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Tiny Olson
From:
Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY
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Posted 18 Nov 2020 4:25 pm
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Hey John:
Buddy always had a pronounced attack on the head-end of the note. You can certainly hear it on the "Black Album." I am pretty sure that he used an "Orange Squeezer" compressor on some cuts during the mid- 70s. I believe he used it on some cuts on the Ray Price, "Cherokee Cowboys Reunited" album of the mid-70s. |
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Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2020 7:17 pm
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This is the specific clip that started the discussion from my end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ij3_YxSEpA&feature=share
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
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Ernie Renn
From:
Brainerd, Minnesota USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2020 12:35 am
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At different times Buddy used an Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer and later an MXR Dyna-Comp.
As for the Laney clip, I’d imagine it was with his MPX-1 thru a Brad Sarno Revelation preamp. (A side note: That was the last time he played the Nameless Shuffle. I think the meaning it had for him was forever changed by adding the lyrics.)
The definition of notes is just how Buddy played. He made each note stand out and get recognized. It brings back memories of a question I asked him: “Thinking out loud: Do you suppose practicing with no amp pushed you to playing each string a little harder?â€
To which he replied: â€No; that's a natural response I have when trying to make the notes come out of the amp shaking their fist at the listener.â€
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My best,
Ernie
www.BuddyEmmons.com |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2020 2:28 pm
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Marvelous quote, Ernie Renn!
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Ernie Renn
From:
Brainerd, Minnesota USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2020 4:25 pm
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He had scads off one liners that kept me laughing... I was so blessed by knowing him.
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My best,
Ernie
www.BuddyEmmons.com |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2020 4:35 pm
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| Righteous information. Buddy had that tone and was a master of it. I believe he could get the best out of a tuna can. His notes and sustain seemed to fill the air. I was always mesmerized by his playing. |
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Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2020 6:49 pm
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Thank you everyone for the input.
So changed the strings, didn’t give me sustain, but helped brighten the tone! Ha ha!
Added compression, and with some tweaking got a good tone along with sustain. Probably lengthen the note decay by at least a third if not 50%.
It’s a keeper!
On a different “note†(see what I did there), I have to say I have been extremely happy with my Digitech 1101. I know some folks don’t care for their products, but I have several Digitech products and they always perform for me!.
My two cents. Thanks again for the input.
Mack
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2020 10:19 am
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| Digitech has some good tones in their products, but the quality of the floor pedals were weak for gigging musicians. I don't know about the rack processors, but some big name guitarist used them at one time. |
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Mike Cass
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 12:37 am
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As for the incredible amount of sustain Buddy got out of a steel or dobro.... I remember one time we were sitting in his basement playing and I realized he'd been playing E9 all afternoon without his foot on the volume pedal, but I had'nt noticed it in his playing.
Curious, I questioned him about that, to which he responded by shaking the thumb, index and middle fingers on his right hand saying "tone controls". Then picking a note and applying bar vibrato to it, pointing at his left hand and saying "sustain".
He followed that by pointing to his right foot and saying "volume".
A man of few words, the Big E was, and all the right ones.
MC |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 2:14 am
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| Great story, Mike. |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 6:00 am
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| All good & valid points but we might give a tiny bit of credit to Bruce Zumsteg also. I know he assembled all his guitars with loving care but I’ll bet he used up all the pixie dust & whatever he had to build one for Buddy knowing the respect he had for Buddy. Just sayin. (Comment is in relation to the Laney clip the poster referred to). |
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Mike Cass
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 11:35 am
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Same axe.....find: NTSGA....NEW BLUE JADE on YT.
That'll rattle a cage or two.
Btw, that day in his basement I mentioned, E was on a Sierra, as to the point of brand of horn notwithstanding concerning his exemplary sustain.
Like Byrd used to say...its all in the hands.
MC |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 11:42 am
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Mike Cass,
Good to have your comments!!
_________________
RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 3:38 pm
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| No argument Mr. Cass, just saying a good guitar helps. |
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Ron Shalita
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 4:08 pm
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Mike, I totally agree!
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Been playing all of my life, Lead Guitar, and Pedal Steel, sing Lead and Harmony.. play other Instruments also but I hate to admit to it.. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2021 9:13 pm
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On U tube is a live show of Mr. Emmons playing Once Upon a Time in West. The first minute of the video they show him at a distance and the only video I have seen of VP work he does for long sustain.
I believe the pixies threw some Pixie Dust on his volume pedal.
With the listing of amp settings Erv Niehaus showed on the chart above is interesting. |
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