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Topic: question re: lap steel vs. pedal steel sound |
Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2020 8:59 pm |
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| Can a lap steel sound as good as a pedal steel , tone , in tune etc etc whats your opinion? lot of times i hear a lap steel and they just dont sound too good. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2020 10:04 pm
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They are different instruments. They don't sound the same. You can never really make one sound like the other.
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 2:05 am
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| There's no reason why a lap steel can't be tuned just as well as a pedal steel; if anything, they're easier to keep in tune. As for tone, that's entirely subjective. |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 6:07 am
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What a great way to make friends in the non-pedal forum!
Could it be that you just prefer pedal steel? Or prefer the music that typically has pedal steel?
When you listen to just pedal steel do you tend towards E9 playing or C6? |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 6:28 am
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Russell, the right player can make any steel sound incredible. IĆ¢ā‚¬ā„¢ve heard lap steel emulate pedal steel & vice versa....I couldnĆ¢ā‚¬ā„¢t discern the difference.
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Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 6:48 am
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Cindy Cashdollar. Not her AATW stuff. Ryan Adams and others. I am totally uninterested in string pulls and benders and other PSG simulations. Just lush fat harmonies. Her playing was the first time I ever considered that you can get into some of that sonic territory with a lap steel.
Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5r73y6uixY&feature=youtu.be |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 7:09 am
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Strictly speaking I'd say its easier to make a lap steel with better tone than a pedal steel...just because the pedal steel has so much more mechanics required that can [potentially] deaden tone and sustain, you have to have potentially lighter string gauges to allow for bending up, all that. That's just from a standpoint of pure tone (which is of course subjective). The pedal steel allows you to do more things, potentially, so its a tradeoff. For instance, I think the sustain and tone of my Stringmaster is a lot better than that of my Fender 400, but with the right copedent you can get all kinds of interesting chords on the 400 that you can't easily get on the Stringmaster. But if I tune them both up to C6, leave the pedals alone, and do an A/B comparison I doubt many would prefer the thinner, plinkier sound from the 400.
In terms of lap steel that sounds a bit like pedal steel...well, I think Jerry Byrd was a bit in that territory when playing electric on slow songs, with his volume pedal. Or maybe it is less that Jerry Byrd sounded like a pedal steel player, and more that pedal steelers sound like Jerry Byrd 
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Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 7:14 am
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| Quote: |
Cindy Cashdollar. Not her AATW stuff. Ryan Adams and others. I am totally uninterested in string pulls and benders and other PSG simulations. Just lush fat harmonies. Her playing was the first time I ever considered that you can get into some of that sonic territory with a lap steel.
Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5r73y6uixY&feature=youtu.be |
That was funny when the singer had to stop the song because the steel guitar sounded so great.
Not bragging here but that has happened to me several times. Whenever I would start playing with another band or musician that wasn't used to hearing the amazing sound of steel or pedal steel... it blows their mind, they lose their place, sometimes have to stop the song!
It doesn't matter lap or pedal steel both are awesome, I have often played at gigs and jam sessions where I switch between my lap with George L. pickups, and my ShoBud LDG (original Pickup} and both sound almost identical out of the same Peavey amp. The only real difference is the pedal action makes for easier more complex chord bends, but the tone can be matched.
Cindy was just using simple harmonics and nice volume swells and no one noticed or cared that it was not a pedal steel. They were just awestruck by the sheer beauty of STEEL GUITAR when played tastefully in perfect tune.
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 7:57 am
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| I am very remiss in not naming Jerry Byrd. When he chose to, his touch & tone (and of course intonation) could give you all the sonics and vibe of pedal steel. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 9:21 am
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Folks just entering the Steel world sometimes perceive that Lap Steel is easier than Pedal Steel... they are definitely less expensive.
But I think Lap Steel is way harder to play in tune than Pedal Steel, which is possibly why you perceive they don't sound as good.
Mastering Slants is way harder than playing pedals and levers.
Tone-wise, I think there are more Pedal Steel players that wish they could get that old non-pedal tone...
Other than an occasional behind the bar string bend, I don't know any Lap players that are trying to sound tonaly like a Pedal Steel. |
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Lee D Kaiser
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 9:37 am
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I can make both sound equally bad.
_________________
If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
I haven't met a guitar I didn't like. |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 23 Sep 2020 10:49 am
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Couple more examples...this fellow gets a great "pedal" sound on a lap steel with hand levers...really nice tone too, IMO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLOOmtvC9Hc
And then of course, there is the reverse...people who play pedal steels but in styles more commonly populated by lap steel or console steel. Basil Henriques plays jazz and Hawaiian on a Fender 1000:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXGjtP63_S4
And Jules Ah See moved to a Fender 1000 too in the late 1950s...you hear a fair amount of pedal steel on the later Alfred Apaka albums, but it is subtly disguised, for sure. Billy Hew Len played an A6 Fender 400 pedal steel pretty frequently.
(That said, if we're just talking tone...most people would say a Fender 400 or 1000 doesn't bear much tonal resemblence to modern pedal steels with their high output soapbar pickups.)
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Mike Anderson
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Larry Carlson
From:
My Computer
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Posted 25 Sep 2020 11:16 am
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.
I think they are two different instruments and should not be compared.
I don't want my lap steels to sound like a pedal steel.
If I did I would be playing a pedal steel.
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I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying. |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Sep 2020 7:37 pm
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On several local 'Opry's in Houston area where I played pedal steel, I would get requests to play some classic Hawaiian tunes on my Fender T-3, or Rickenbacher 6 string, or someone in audience who had an old Gibson or even a 'new' Rogue 6 string lap steel (cost ~$60 on a mail order catalog)
All of these I played through my twin Session 500s, after resetting tone and reverb settings. All sounded very good through those amps, BUT the tone sustain, scale length, and string spacings with string height from fretboard made the 'feel' of the instrument hard to play on a moments notice.
But the person with the little cheapie Rogue, was very pleased to hear his guitar sound so good through a good amp vs his little home amp. He went home happy and wanted
to keep learning.
Just my 3 cents worth (inflation).
Thanx,
Jim
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Jim Bates, Alvin, Texas
Emmons LeGrand,Sho-Bud Super Pro, SB ProII - E13th,C6th on all. Many Resonator guitars |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Sep 2020 7:39 pm
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On several local 'Opry's in Houston area where I played pedal steel, I would get requests to play some classic Hawaiian tunes on my Fender T-3, or Rickenbacher 6 string, or someone in audience who had an old Gibson or even a 'new' Rogue 6 string lap steel (cost ~$60 on a mail order catalog)
All of these I played through my twin Session 500s, after resetting tone and reverb settings. All sounded very good through those amps, BUT the tone sustain, scale length, and string spacings with string height from fretboard made the 'feel' of the instrument hard to play on a moments notice.
But the person with the little cheapie Rogue, was very pleased to hear his guitar sound so good through a good amp vs his little home amp. He went home happy and wanted
to keep learning.
Just my 3 cents worth (inflation).
Thanx,
Jim
_________________
Jim Bates, Alvin, Texas
Emmons LeGrand,Sho-Bud Super Pro, SB ProII - E13th,C6th on all. Many Resonator guitars |
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Joe Burke
From:
Toronto, Canada
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Posted 26 Sep 2020 10:05 am
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| Lap steel all the way! Live to Slant. Slant to Live. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 26 Sep 2020 11:21 am
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As good as? Yes! Better than? Maybe.
The same as? No! |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 26 Sep 2020 7:19 pm
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I have no interest in making my lap steels sound like a pedal steel. I have pedal steels for that sound. I have no interest in making my pedal steels sound like a lap steel. I have lap steels for that sound.
It's apples vs oranges. Both are great; both are different. I favor the old PV 400s for pedal steel -- solid state with big wattage. I favor smallish tube amps for lap steel. Apples & oranges.
I pull strings behind the bar on my lap steels with some frequency. Mainly to make additional chords, seldom to achieve pedal steel-like sounds. Benders, to me, are akin to installing a trailer hitch on a Corvette.
To each his own. The beauty of steel guitars, either pedal or non, is there is no one size that fits all. The sky's the limit. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Sep 2020 12:21 am
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As several people have already pointed out, they are two different instruments, and the pedal steel sound comes from - guess what - the pedals.
However skilled you are at slanting the bar, you'll never copy all that pedals can do on E9.
C6 is a different story, as the pedals were put on there (5,6 & 8 anyway) to replicate common slants.
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Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Garry Vanderlinde
From:
CA
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Posted 27 Sep 2020 1:13 am Re: question re: lap steel vs. pedal steel sound
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| Russell Adkins wrote: |
| Can a lap steel sound as good as a pedal steel , tone , in tune etc etc whats your opinion? lot of times i hear a lap steel and they just dont sound too good. |
I agree with Jon Light.
Listen to this recording of lap steel by Jerry Byrd playing "I'll Be All Smiles Tonight", as well as his entire Admiral Byrd album.
You be the judge...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHaXEAnr-yM |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 27 Sep 2020 5:14 am
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I don't think it's just about pedals. Sometimes if we're doing a Hank William's song and I'm on pedal steel, I'll go into A6 mode - A&B pedals down and D lowered to C#. This means strings 4-9 are the same as my 6 string lap steel. I keep them engaged through the whole song and don't move them and it sounds different tonally from my lap steel (and not as good for those songs in my opinion.
On records I'm pretty sure I can hear if someone is using the C6 neck on a swing song - even if I don't hear any pedal moves. Don't know if it's the pickups typically used on pedal steels or something else but there is a definite tonal difference.
Last edited by Jeff Mead on 27 Sep 2020 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 27 Sep 2020 5:23 am
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I think it depends on what the original poster means by "sound as good." He specifically mentions tone. As I have often expressed here on the forum, I think the biggest thing determining tone, besides the player, is the amp. And lap steels typically use different amps than pedal steels. And Western Swing and early country used very different amps from the typical modern steel player.
In my opinion, while the instruments require different playing technique unless only playing single-note runs without using pedals/levers, still the tone can be very similar - close enough for government work, as the saying goes. As evidence, I offer the following video. You might want to stop reading right here and click on the link, but DON'T WATCH - JUST LISTEN. In particular, pay attention to the steel solo that starts at 1:18. And ask yourself who the player is, and which steel is he using?
https://youtu.be/XrNYOKTqt58
SPOILER ALERT FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO DO THE BLIND TEST!
As you will see, it is Buddy Emmons, playing a Fender triple neck with trap pickups. In fact, a console steel which many think has that special vintage console vibe like no other. Not the Blade, not his Zum. And at times, due to technique, it's clearly a non-pedal steel. But listen to the solo that starts 1:18 - and if that is not quintessential Buddy Emmons, both in technique and tone, I don't know what is! It sounds like, well, Buddy. Not Buddy on a vintage console. Like Buddy. My guess is he is using whatever his typical amp of that time was for him, and thus, the two most important aspects for tone IMO (player and amp) are there. I could be wrong. And maybe it sounds totally different to you. But that was my impression. So, at least as far as tone goes, you can make them sound pretty much the same. Or totally different. It's up to you, and the gear you chose.
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 27 Sep 2020 6:26 am
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A pedal steel pickup has at least twice as many windings as a lap steel pickup. The body of a pedal steel weighs at least twice as much as a lap steel, and resonates differently.
They can both sound wonderful in their own way, but they cannot sound the same. The physical characteristics of the instrument are too different.
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-š¯•“š¯•†š¯•“- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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