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Topic: "Next To Jimmy" JB's first recording in Diatonic tuning. |
Tom Snook
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Posted 9 May 2014 7:06 am |
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Anyone have this recording? And if so,could it be posted for "educational purposes"?
_________________
I wanna go back to my little grass shack........ |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Tom Snook
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Posted 9 May 2014 11:23 am
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Mahalos' Mike,why didn't I think of checking you tube? That's definatly not yer standard tuning!
_________________
I wanna go back to my little grass shack........ |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 9 May 2014 3:46 pm
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| I'm not a big Jerry Byrd guy but here's a E9 pedal steel interpretation of this song's solo. |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 10 May 2014 6:26 am
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| Wow that's pretty incredible. Slants, right? Sounds like E9 pedal steel to me but apparently that's JB? Wow again. |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 12 May 2014 4:24 am
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| I need to try this tuning out. Wonder if I can bring any of my E9 pedal steel knowledge into my C6 lap knowledge? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 12 May 2014 7:08 am
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I think Jerry's "diatonic" tuning was
E
C
B
A
G
F
E
and if so, here is how he might have done it. Mistakes are included to see if you are paying attention.
But I'm not sure, because the tone of his guitar sounds as if most or all of it is played lower on the neck. Maybe that is the magic of his 7 string Rickenbacker.
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Posted 12 May 2014 12:35 pm
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Man, I love that steel break.
I put that tuning on a guitar of mine and monkey around on it a little from time to time.
There are so many cool, colorful chords in there that it hurts my head trying to conceptualize, but having that gap between the A and C strings (where the B string is), makes for easier slanting and diatonic playing up and down the neck imo.
Just for fun, here's another JB clip. I love what he does during the second tune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bcH7LUOGzc |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2014 5:07 pm How about this, for controversy?
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I've loved Jerry Byrd playing from the first time I heard the first few notes of "Moonland"......this was ages ago.
But.....as much as I admired him, his kindness, his professionalism as a musician, etc.......I can't help but wonder if Jerry was mistaken on his recollections about that Ferlin Husky record of "Next to Jimmy".
I've heard the same story time and again about it being played in C Diatonic tuning but, with the thousands of hours I've committed to listening to Jerry's playing in depth, I simply CANNOT hear a single note that leads me to accept the C-Diatonic tuning on this record.
Anyone that has listened to that tuning, will recognize a very prominent chord, a signature sound, that is always applied at some point during the song. I find that "sound" to be seriously LACKING in Next to Jimmy.
Who disagrees with me? And how do you manage to believe that? |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 12 May 2014 5:55 pm
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Ray,
What tuning do you think he used if not C diatonic?
This solo is kind of blowing my mind because I see the relation to C6 lap right away in the tuning spelling, but it's a whole different sound - an E9 pedals sound! I found a year of the song as 1960 so definitely pedal steel would have been an influence.
So I sort of wonder if this was JB's lap steel answer to the pedal steel sound that was beginning to grow in popularity?
Am I off base?
Last edited by Nate Hofer on 12 May 2014 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:00 pm To be quite honest..............
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I don't know half as much about music and steel guitar as you other players know but........
No matter how hard I attempt to convert my ear to hearing anything "C-Diatonic" in Next to Jimmy, I still don't hear it.
Jerry was a wonderful and honest man but as he aged he could quite possibly have been mistaken in his comment about using it.
I keep coming up with C6th/A7th tuning. I've watched his strings/slants played and there it is, C6th plain and simple.
Right or wrong? |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:05 pm
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| Well, cool. If it's C6 then I'm doubly impressed and I need to get this "Jimmy" approach down since C6/A7 is my weapon of choice. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:07 pm
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I love this solo too! My favorite part is the crashing slide down to a II7 chord. What a killer sound. The tuning features a lot of 3rds, which can sound very "country", and it has some interesting 'ear candy'... like 1/2 step licks over minor chords.
Here's something I recorded about five years ago on this diatonic tuning... actually tuned down to A diatonic because I did want to break any strings. Played on a D-8 Guyatone, 1960s:
A Diatonic, It Was A Very Good Year---->CLICK
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:08 pm
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I'm nowhere near an expert of Byrd's music but I recall a JB quote saying something like "I can play anything I played on C6th on my diatonic tuning and a whole lot more" so perhaps it just sounds like C6th 'cause those sounds are available?
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:14 pm Jerry told me................
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He created C-Diatonic in an effort to come up with a new 'sound' right in the middle of the pedal steel boon......
No secret there.... Jerry explained that after not playing for a number of years due to the influx of pedal steel, this new tuning was going to be his open door into the 'sound arena'. When Ferlin called him to come to the session, Jerry says he told Ferlin he "must be crazy" in calling Jerry Byrd during this pedal steel craze.
I listed elsewhere on the SGF the last couple of weeks, other tunes on which the C-Diatonic can be easily identified, which is NOT the case with Next to Jimmy. I too loved this song so I'm not bashing Jerry in any way.
If you wish to answer this question factually, I urge you to visit the jerrybyrd-fanclub.com site and to Jerry's Music and listen to any number of tunes on that page in which you can readily hear
the Diatonic sound.
Thanks for this 'friendly' exchange. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:16 pm Jerry told me................
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He created C-Diatonic in an effort to come up with a new 'sound' right in the middle of the pedal steel boon......
No secret there.... Jerry explained that after not playing for a number of years due to the influx of pedal steel, this new tuning was going to be his open door into the 'sound arena'. When Ferlin called him to come to the session, Jerry says he told Ferlin he "must be crazy" in calling Jerry Byrd during this pedal steel craze.
I listed elsewhere on the SGF the last couple of weeks, other tunes on which the C-Diatonic can be easily identified, which is NOT the case with Next to Jimmy. I too loved this song so I'm not bashing Jerry in any way.
If you wish to answer this question factually, I urge you to visit the jerrybyrd-fanclub.com site and to Jerry's Music and listen to any number of tunes on that page in which you can readily hear
the Diatonic sound.
Thanks for this 'friendly' exchange.
Thanks too, to Mike Neer for 'hearing' what I hear.
Jerry did lot's of bar slurs, slants and other little thingies with it to give it that extra sound.
Like Jerry said.......there's lots of music lying there between the frets waiting to be discovered and played. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:17 pm Jerry told me................
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He created C-Diatonic in an effort to come up with a new 'sound' right in the middle of the pedal steel boon......
No secret there.... Jerry explained that after not playing for a number of years due to the influx of pedal steel, this new tuning was going to be his open door into the 'sound arena'. When Ferlin called him to come to the session, Jerry says he told Ferlin he "must be crazy" in calling Jerry Byrd during this pedal steel craze.
I listed elsewhere on the SGF the last couple of weeks, other tunes on which the C-Diatonic can be easily identified, which is NOT the case with Next to Jimmy. I too loved this song so I'm not bashing Jerry in any way.
If you wish to answer this question factually, I urge you to visit the jerrybyrd-fanclub.com site and to Jerry's Music and listen to any number of tunes on that page in which you can readily hear
the Diatonic sound.
Thanks for this 'friendly' exchange.
Thanks too, to Mike Neer for 'hearing' what I hear.
Jerry did lot's of bar slurs, slants and other little thingies with it to give it that extra sound.
Like Jerry said.......there's lots of music lying there between the frets waiting to be discovered and played. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:17 pm Jerry told me................
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He created C-Diatonic in an effort to come up with a new 'sound' right in the middle of the pedal steel boon......
No secret there.... Jerry explained that after not playing for a number of years due to the influx of pedal steel, this new tuning was going to be his open door into the 'sound arena'. When Ferlin called him to come to the session, Jerry says he told Ferlin he "must be crazy" in calling Jerry Byrd during this pedal steel craze.
I listed elsewhere on the SGF the last couple of weeks, other tunes on which the C-Diatonic can be easily identified, which is NOT the case with Next to Jimmy. I too loved this song so I'm not bashing Jerry in any way.
If you wish to answer this question factually, I urge you to visit the jerrybyrd-fanclub.com site and to Jerry's Music and listen to any number of tunes on that page in which you can readily hear
the Diatonic sound.
Thanks for this 'friendly' exchange.
Thanks too, to Mike Neer for 'hearing' what I hear.
Jerry did lot's of bar slurs, slants and other little thingies with it to give it that extra sound.
Like Jerry said.......there's lots of music lying there between the frets waiting to be discovered and played.javascript:emoticon(' ') |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:18 pm Jerry told me................
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He created C-Diatonic in an effort to come up with a new 'sound' right in the middle of the pedal steel boon......
No secret there.... Jerry explained that after not playing for a number of years due to the influx of pedal steel, this new tuning was going to be his open door into the 'sound arena'. When Ferlin called him to come to the session, Jerry says he told Ferlin he "must be crazy" in calling Jerry Byrd during this pedal steel craze.
I listed elsewhere on the SGF the last couple of weeks, other tunes on which the C-Diatonic can be easily identified, which is NOT the case with Next to Jimmy. I too loved this song so I'm not bashing Jerry in any way.
If you wish to answer this question factually, I urge you to visit the jerrybyrd-fanclub.com site and to Jerry's Music and listen to any number of tunes on that page in which you can readily hear
the Diatonic sound.
Thanks for this 'friendly' exchange.
Thanks too, to Mike Neer for 'hearing' what I hear.
Jerry did lot's of bar slurs, slants and other little thingies with it to give it that extra sound.
Like Jerry said.......there's lots of music lying there between the frets waiting to be discovered and played.javascript:emoticon('') |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:19 pm
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It's C Diatonic... according to Jerry Byrd himself.
Below are Jerry's words regarding this song "Next to Jimmy" and his diatonic tuning. This was posted on This Forum in 2001 by Jerry's brother, Jack Byrd.
I have added the Bold to highlight certain parts.
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In the recent past there was a thread on diatonic tunings and there were several references to Jerry’s tuning. I sent the thread via snail mail to Jerry and this was his reply.
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I experimented with various tunings in the years following my discovery of C6th tuning in 1937 but all of them were “unplayable.†Having gone to a 7-string guitar in the mid-40’s so I could add the much needed “C†that was eliminated when I raised the 6th string to C#, I then had C and C# to work with.
I kept “hearing†a chord in my head that I know would give me a new dimension and after much twisting and turning of tuning keys and changes of string gauges, I found it—this was sometime in the early 50’s. I ended up with the “alphabet†and the formula came out from bottom to top as:
E-F-G-A-B-C(D)-E
I have the D in parenthesis because it completely made the whole thing un-palyable and was only in the way-and besides-I’d need an 8-string neck. So- off it came- or should I say “out it went†and so it ended up with “E to E without the D.†And my “lost chord was there on the 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd and 1st strings. And I still had my E and C on top.
It took me a while to realize that I really had something! I could do all I ever did in my C6th tuning and much more. It was great for popular songs, because I could play most everything in 3 part harmony with my ever-present “slants†and it was equally good for Hawaiian and even country.
I kept it under wraps for 2 or 3 years which was easy because I was about as much in demand as yesterdays newspaper---- but I kept working with it. One day my phone rang and it was Ferlin Huskey. “I’m doing a session soon and I want you to play steelâ€---I said – “are you sure you called the right number??.†“Damn right!!†And I want you to play “Jerry Byrd†and don’t let anybody try to change anything.†I said – “well O.K.—I’ll be there.â€
At the session he came over to me and said- “now I want you to play Jerry Byrd on this next song- it’s titled Next to Jimmy.†I said “give me a few minutes to see if I can remember what Jerry Byrd did.†I then worked up the first recording I ever did in that tuning. And it is still talked about. I am continually reminded of it. Know what?? I have not the slightest idea of what I played. I’d play and go home and forget about it. That’s the way we did it back in our time.
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25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:29 pm
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| Quote: |
| I recall a JB quote saying something like "I can play anything I played on C6th on my diatonic tuning and a whole lot more" so perhaps it just sounds like C6th 'cause those sounds are available? |
Yes, Andy. Very true. The top 5 strings of standard C6 lap steel tuning are in Jerry's diatonic tuning... skip the B string and skip the F string and you have the top 5 strings of C6. That's why the tuning can sound like C6. The additional 'ear candy' is heard when the other two strings are added in. It's not as easy to play as C6 because more string skipping is required.
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25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel
Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 12 May 2014 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:32 pm I have to agree with you Doug............
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as I've heard that story many times.
But please give a listen to "FOREVER GONE" by Ernie Ashworth and listen to that DIATONIC chord of which is a signature sound in all of JERRY's subsequent recordings.
I can't believe that Jerry would have left out that beautiful, fat chord that is so very prominent when playing in that tuning. See what you think, okay?
By the way: I DID NOT POST THE PRECEEDING POST THREE TIMES IN A ROW! I've had trouble this evening of getting things to post to the SGF. Don't know why but that's reality. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:35 pm
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Ray, do you think maybe Jerry was mistaken when he said he played his diatonic tuning on "Next to Jimmy"?
I'm familiar with Jerry's diatonic sound, like on Come a Little Closer, and Invitation to Love, and I know that some of those signature sounds are not in Next to Jimmy, but it's possible that he opted not to play those licks because he wanted to sound more "country" in this song. I would have to sit down with the song and study the solo and try to play it on both C6 and C diatonic to figure out if it could be played exactly like that on C6 or if only C diatonic will produce those sounds. It's on my list of projects to do. 
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25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel
Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 12 May 2014 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:41 pm Doug.................
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I REALLY, Really, really DO!
Nothing intentional on his part but.......... As he stated many times over, he recorded and went home never to think of that/those songs again. I BELIEVE IT!
I know you understand what I'm attempting to say and do a good job at presenting it but.......
THAT SOUND, that special chord within Diatonic, is totally lacking in NEXT to JIMMY.
He uses it with enthusiasm during all the years thereafter, even in Hawaii. You know, as do I, Jerry was an emotional man and could change a tuning by just flicking the tuning peg without spending a lot of time in doing so. Perhaps he just wasn't comfortable after he started to record and simply changed the pitch. Such a normal event for JB and I feel he could have simply forgotten that he did so. |
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