Sick of being out of tune.

Joe Krumel · From: Hermitage, Tn.

I guess it's that time for me again! Things go along pretty good for a while and wham!, I can't get this thing in tune no matter what idea I try.Getting too complicated.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Could it be the strings? I bought a set of strings one time that were terrible, couldn't get it in tune or stay in tune. Took them off and put another set on (not the same brand but that was only because I only bought one set of the ones that wouldn't tune) and it tuned right up.

As you are in the Nashville area, take it to Steel Guitars in Hendersonville and have them check it out and tune it and show you how to tune it. May cost a couple bucks but worth it.
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Joe Krumel · From: Hermitage, Tn.

thanks Jack. I did just change strings. that might be part of it,but I have had trouble tuning forever. Tried the tempered charts,and ideas posted here,but I spend more time tuning than playing. Will start with string change first.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Some guys play all night without tuning and some guys tune all night without playing. Rolling Eyes

Erv

Doug Taylor · From: Shelbyville, Kentucky, USA

I too have been very frustrated with tuning, no matter which method I tried something would be a little out on my guitar. I tried this method a couple of days ago and so far it seems like a good solution.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=334580

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Erv, that reminds me of Stravinsky, who observed that harpists spend half their time tuning and the other half playing out of tune Smile

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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Ian,
Exactly! Very Happy

Erv

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I see from your profile that you've been around the forum a while, so you probably have a pretty good handle on this steel thing.

Not that this is your issue, but when the Korg units came out in the 70's, I spent big bucks and copied some tuning numbers from Jeff et al.

When I would go out to play, I never felt like I was in tune....I hated it...My ear told me it was out.

I went to an Al Petty seminar where he taught a slightly relaxed version of ET from the Piano Tuning and Allied Arts whereby one would actually listen to and tune a certain number of beats into some intervals.

This worked really well and the guitar sounded great. Problem was, trying to tune up on stage, there was always someone noodling so that it was sometimes hard to hear the beat count unless I had earphones.

I have a few tuners. What I like to do now is use the tuner as a reference. First push A&B pedals and tune the E's to straight up, let off and tune in everything else to that E reference, then relax the 3rds so that they are not terribly offensive then tune it all by ear. I make note of how much flat the 3rds. are, so that I can rough that in with the tuner. This is really close to the Petty thing.

When everybody is on stage tuning up, I ask the guitar player to hit me an A down there on the 2nd fret and tune my pedals down open A chord to that.

I go back and touch everything up and never have to change anything as long as everybody else stays true. Of course there's nothing you can do about environmental and temp changes, so a global touch up sometimes has to be done.

I'm sort of surprised the AL Petty method never really caught on. Probably cause it's hard to hear among the stage din without headphones. It sounds complicated at first, but it's really not....you just have to be able to hear the beats and count them into the intervals where they are needed.

This works well for standard guitar too if you trust it.

I think I still have the old cassette around here someplace. I copied the basic method on a small card for reference.

All these high end tuners and sweetened charts may work well for everybody else, but you still have to get in tune with everybody on stage.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I think that a lot of people who can't seem to get in tune aren't holding their bar straight. Make a video of your hands while you play. It might surprise you.

Also (not accusing anyone), use of marijuana can give some people a malady that I call "stoned ear". Been there, done that.
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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

It hasn't stopped Willie. Whoa!

Erv

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Joe Krumel · From: Hermitage, Tn.

Thanks for all the input guys. new strings, and a bunch of things to try here. I am really going to watch the bar angle. just a thought,would intonation adjustments on the nut(like the old micro-frets)help in any way?

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Oft times he doesn't SING in tune either. Very Happy

Erv

Dana Blodgett · From: California, USA

Where is the â€œlikeâ€ button?
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Dale Rivard · From: Ontario, Canada

Hi Joe, I would strongly suggest trying what Doug Taylor has recommended, which is our fearless leader b0b's method of tuning. I've been using a method similar to this for over 15 years with good success both live and in the studio. It's basically between ET and JI and allows you to play most string combinations using different pedal and knee lever combinations, without using compensators. If you tune true JI without using compensators, there are certain string combinations you must avoid. I'm not a fan of ET. The major triads just sound too sour for me. I know this horse has been beaten many times lol but I suggest anyone to try this method if they're struggling to play in tune with other instruments.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I don't think its an intonation problem. Micro Frets had an adjustment for the G string as its the hardest to get right.

I used the Newman Sweetened tuning that's in a Peterson tuner on the Franklin and now using it on a GFI and to my ears I'm in tune. I'm also in tune with the lead guitar player and bass in our band.
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Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

I did some recording last evening at a friend's house and was pretty close to re-tuning everything to 440 after hearing my first take. The only thing worse than being way off-pitch is being slightly off-pitch. Laughing

The curse of fretless instruments... the better you get, the more your ear improves. The more your ear improves, the more complicated your intonation problems get.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I believe intonation is the never ending challenge of the steel guitar. The good news is if you can hear the problems you can fix it. Just keep at it and it will improve.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Tune the open strings. Then tune the A&B pedals. You should be able to get strings 2,3,4,5,6,8,& 10 in 'perfect' tune with the pedals both up and down. (That should NOT be a problem.) Keep in mind that if you don't have compensators, the 7th string will NEVER be in tune with the pedals both up and down. It won't even be friggin' close! (This drives many players crazy. Just accept it, and move on.) Pick some happy compromise you can live with, or add compensator rods and learn to deal with them. I tune JI and I tune the 7th string beatless with no pedals. What it winds up sounding like with the pedals down, I don't worry about. I either avoid the pedals-down 7th string chord, or I play a 2-note interval and fudge it in with the bar (You can always fudge 2 strings and make them sound perfect. Buddy played tons of two-note intervals, and I sorta think he felt the same way...avoid fuller chords that aren't perfectly in tune) The remaining strings 1 & 9 can be made very close, but they also will never be in perfect tune with the pedals up and down without compensators. Likewise for the "E" raise, find a happy medium and move on.

I presently have 5 steels, and none have compensators. I've learned how to deal with the issues the same way steelers did 50 years ago.

WARNING!
This is what I've done, and I don't claim it's the best way or that others should do it. It's just what works for me, and I get enough compliments about how well-in-tune I play that I'm not about to be changing soon. I rest assured knowing that I won't be getting an ulcer or get fired because I can't play some 5-note chords in perfect tune. Laughing

Kevin Fix · From: Michigan, USA

Buy a Peterson StroboPlus HD Tuner. You won't waste your money. I remember years ago using a pitch pipe to get both my "E" and "B" strings in key. Then I tuned the rest by ear. Tune open first, tune pedal and knees next. Almost 70 now, the ears are not not as sharp as they used to be. Keep your bar straight.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Have you verified that the fretboard is positioned correctly? It can drive you crazy if it's not.

Peter Harris · From: South Australia, Australia

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

What Donny says about the 7th string is true because we ask it to do two jobs. I use compensation because I insist on 4-note chords with pedals up or down. The A and C pedal both lower it a hair - works perfectly.
I tune string 1 to its non-lowered pitch.
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