| Author |
Topic: The talk box, a tale of two Petes (Drake and Frampton) |
ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 12:55 am |
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that's great footage of Pete, thanks for sharing it.
but you know Buddy Emmons always claimed that he actually stumbled on the invention but didn't have much use for it. Pete happened to witness Buddy fooling with it in the studio and the rest is history. that's according to Buddy.
I'm not here to discredit Pete, but he almost certainly didn't invent it and it seems his story about giving one to Frampton didn't quite happen either.
I'll track down Buddy's recollections when I get to my computer, if someone doesn't beat me to it.
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster
Last edited by scott murray on 10 Jul 2020 4:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 5:48 am
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| I have a copy of "Burnt Fingers" on a Ray Price Presents the Cherokee Cowboys album that sounds like a talk box, maybe even Buddy ! |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 8:26 am
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Definitely a talk box on Burnt Fingers. Cool tune, very cool track.
I've been curious as to when someone will use one at the Phoenix or Dallas show... |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 9:26 am
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forgot about Burnt Fingers. here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guhjDV1XWjw
he also used it on Anita Bryant's version of Hey Good Lookin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQp2vdswO90
and here's two separate quotes from Buddy regarding the talk-box. I forgot about Alvino Rey's part in all this:
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The original talking steel was a Sonavox Alvino Rey used. I don't know if Alvino had anything to do with it's creation, but he did make it popular through his recordings. The talking tube was Neil Wilburn's idea. Neil was the first person to build an amp for the Sho~Bud company.
Now that the cat is out of the bag, here's "the rest of the story."
Shot and I were cutting an album at the Starday studio and I was trying to get the talking sound with tiny microphones I had turned into speakers and put in my mouth. The sounds from forming the words were louder than the talking effect so I was just about to give up when Neil Wilburn walked into the studio.
Neil was an electronics man who built the first Sho~Bud amp, so his car was always full of electronic paraphernalia. He went to his car and brought a box with a six inch speaker and a hole in the top at the speaker center. I hooked the terminals to my amp, stuck a plastic hose in the hole and voila, the sound came out the tube.
The song I was going to use the tube on was Danny Boy, but because the sound wasn't coming from in back of the tongue, and the sound was distorting, it wasn't as clear as I wanted it, so I trashed the idea temporarily. Meanwhile, Pete Drake had been sitting in the corner of the studio for the entire session. The next day, he went to Bill West and Bill mounted a speaker driver in a box, which eliminated the distortion.
Pete was on fire in the studios at the time and I couldn't buy a session. I finally got a call for an Anita Bryant session and took my improved box with me. I walked into the studio and one of the Jordanaires said, "Oh, I see you have one of those Pete Drake boxes." I smiled and said, "yeah." I used it on "Hey Good Lookin" on the Anita Bryant session and "Burnt Fingers" on the Singin' Strings album, and that was the end of it for me.
The ironic part is that I got a message from Pete saying he wanted me to come to his office. I had heard he was thinking of marketing the talking tube so I thought, "Well, maybe ole Pete's conscience caught up with him and he was going to give me a piece of the action." I walked into his office and he pointed to his steel and said, "Could you show me the second chord to "Forever?" I showed him and walked out shaking my head. |
| Quote: |
The first attempt ever using the talking tube was on an album Shot Jackson and I recorded at the Starday studio. The tube and box with a six inch speaker was a product of Neil Wilburn, a potential Sho~Bud amp builder at the time. Pete was doing all the Starday studio work, so when he heard we would be there he showed up, grabbed a seat, and took it all in.
I tried using the talking tube on Danny Boy but the results I got were less than ideal to my ear so I decided to scrap it until we could improve the sound. In the meantime Pete went to Bill West, who dabbled in electronics, and asked him to build something similar to what I had used only less prone to distortion. Thats where the speaker driver came in.
Chapter two was when I arrived at an Anita Bryant session with my talking tube and one of the Jordanaires said, I see youve got one of those Pete Drake boxes. Pete had been wearing it out on sessions by that time so it was over for me as far as credit due so I just shook my head and used it on Hey Good Lookin. The only other song I ever recorded with the sound was Burnt Fingers sung by Wade Ray.
To add an interesting twist to the end, a few months later I was told Pete wanted to see me in his office. Id heard he might build a few boxes and thought his conscience had taken a turn and he was going to cut me in on it. Instead, I walked into his office, where his steel was five feet from the door. I heard you wanted to see me, I said. Pete said, Yeah, would you sit down at my guitar and show me where to find the second chord to Forever. I sat down, showed him, and walked out end of story. |
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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Chuck S. Lettes
From:
Denver, Colorado
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Posted 12 Jul 2020 5:39 am
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The Talk-Box and its origins are part of the book, "Wherever the Sound Takes You" by David Rowell. He discusses the link between Peter Frampton and Pete Drake. The two musicians met when recording All Things Must Pass, and Frampton was amazed when Pete plugged in the Talk Box.
Chuck |
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R Crow
From:
Hectorville, OK USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2020 5:03 pm Pete Drake talk box
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Is anyone interested in buying one of these?
I still have mine, with documentation, from about 1965.
Rick |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 12 Jul 2020 7:12 pm
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neat Rick. how much would you want for it?
I was looking at the MXR version but I'd love to see the real deal
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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R Crow
From:
Hectorville, OK USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2020 12:59 pm Pete Drake talk box
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Scott, I don't think I can compete with the price of the MXR. I would want about $400. I know it sounds like alot, but the #97.50 from 1965 comes out to about $850 today. |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 13 Jul 2020 3:39 pm
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very cool. probably more than I care to spend but I'd love to hear it in action
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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R Crow
From:
Hectorville, OK USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2020 6:14 pm
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Drop by anytime and you can try it out.
Hecterville is only about 15 miles south of Tulsa.
Let me know when, and I'll get some fresh tubing.
Rick |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 27 Jul 2020 3:41 pm
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I'm pretty sure I first heard a talk box on Rocky Mountain Way by Joe Walsh. That predated Frampton for ME only because I didn't know about him before Frampton Comes Alive.
This performance of Forever by Pete Drake has an eerie quality to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R9an8AU3No |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Jul 2020 8:16 pm
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I have one somewhere in my attic that Jack Ward, a mutual friend of Jerry Byrd and me built. Our first attempt was with one of those little drive in theater speakers and when I tried it, it fried the speaker and the smoke came up the tube and almost asphixiated me. We then learned we were supposed to use a driver and that one worked.
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Harlow Dobro
Last edited by Clyde Mattocks on 24 Aug 2020 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 18 Aug 2020 9:15 am
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I got heavily into Peter Frampton when I was 16 or 17 or so and just learning guitar...the odd thing about that is it was 20+ years after everyone else, in the late 90s (when my peers were into, I dunno, Nirvana and Pearl Jam). I thought the talk box was really cool, but never ended up buying one mostly because it was a challenging technical thing to hookup, you had to have an amp head driving it as well as a microphone (and a PA to amplify the microphone) and I was a bit too much of a bedroom player to justify all that nonsense!
Unfortunate thing about it, it became a bit of his trademark and could even be seen as a gimmick, but Frampton was such a great guitarist even with the talkbox switched off. Vs the ubiquitous pentatonic blues cliche guys, he had more of diatonic approach to solo melody that I loved (not quite Larry Carlton jazz fusion, admittedly, but in the confines of conventional pop/rock it had more complexity than the average player). And he's just a fun, positive guy, from what I've seen. Took my kids to see him, even, last year...
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Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 19 Aug 2020 12:35 am
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Interesting story how this came from country and worked its way into rock. Good to know.
The air rushes into the throat area and the better one is at shaping the throat as if singing the better the effect.
There's also Sambora with Bon Jovi.
He might've used a Heil when this was tracked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDK9QqIzhwk
I used to have a home made unit when on the road. A compression driver in a wood box.
Guys in the band hated it. They plotted to connect the thing to an AC outlet and blow it up!
Now believe it or not I have a Maxon.
Was just cleaning the tube and planning on using it for some angst driven cabin fever tune.
Here's Johnny!!!
On second thought teeth might fall out! 
Here's Gummy..
Here's the driver. Maxon/Ibanez were always linked together.
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 19 Aug 2020 2:55 pm
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| I played very brieflly in a rock band (yes, I was playing steel)with Richie Sambora, probably around 1981. Richie was getting very close to the talk box thing using a flanger and wah pedal. I don't think he was old enough to be in the club. He was a monster, even back then. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 19 Aug 2020 3:00 pm
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| Jack Stanton wrote: |
| I played very brieflly in a rock band (yes, I was playing steel)with Richie Sambora, probably around 1981. Richie was getting very close to the talk box thing using a flanger and wah pedal. I don't think he was old enough to be in the club. He was a monster, even back then. |
Thanks for the info Jack. 
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 19 Aug 2020 8:44 pm
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| Reminds me of the time I plugged a Radio Shack microphone into a headphone jack, and kinda used it like that. 🎤😮 |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 20 Aug 2020 8:18 am
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| Duane Reese wrote: |
| Reminds me of the time I plugged a Radio Shack microphone into a headphone jack, and kinda used it like that. 🎤😮 |
Wow wonder what that sounded like?
Never thought of doing that... 
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 20 Aug 2020 9:37 am
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| Godfrey Arthur wrote: |
| Duane Reese wrote: |
| Reminds me of the time I plugged a Radio Shack microphone into a headphone jack, and kinda used it like that. 🎤😮 |
Wow wonder what that sounded like?
Never thought of doing that... |
Well, I'm sure it wasn't good for the capsule, and it was kinda slobbery, but...it kinda sounded like a talk box. It was basically just eliminating the tube and putting the speaker right in the mouth. I don't recommend the practice, but for the record, it worked. When you don't have the means to do things right, you do a lot of unorthodox stunts.
Yes, dynamic microphones are to speakers as generators are to motors – somewhat interchangeable, although not usually optimized for that. Again, I don't recommend that with a good mic. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 20 Aug 2020 10:27 am
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| Duane Reese wrote: |
Well, I'm sure it wasn't good for the capsule, and it was kinda slobbery, but...it kinda sounded like a talk box. It was basically just eliminating the tube and putting the speaker right in the mouth. I don't recommend the practice, but for the record, it worked. When you don't have the means to do things right, you do a lot of unorthodox stunts.
Yes, dynamic microphones are to speakers as generators are to motors – somewhat interchangeable, although not usually optimized for that. Again, I don't recommend that with a good mic. |
I see. Yeah I would think even the drivers they use in the actual boxes may have a hard time being connected to the output of an amp without a crossover. But so far never had a driver fail but sourcing one for this purpose was not as easy in my experience.
I couldn't see Brett's sample as I don't have Instagram.
Clyde's story is hilarious!
Danelectro has this pedal that simulates. Never tried one though.
Danelectro's Free Speech inline stomp box. Dig the Peace symbol at the center of the logo and the hippie paint scheme. 
As far as "slobber" I went as far as getting white food grade tubing instead of the hardware variety clear tubing to keep whatever toxic chemicals down to a mild roar.
It's used in home brewing.
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 20 Aug 2020 11:53 am
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| Those little mic bud things go in your nostrils... 🤪 |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 20 Aug 2020 12:04 pm
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| Duane Reese wrote: |
| Those little mic bud things go in your nostrils... 🤪 |
Hahaha...
Actually those are the mics you use to pick up the sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HRuWGMjyM
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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