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Topic: Adjusting Compensators |
Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 9 Jul 2020 2:42 am |
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Hi everyone. I just bought a Zum U-12, and it has two compensators on it. It didn't come with a manual. so I got one from Mr. Bruce, however it says very little, regarding the compensators. I know nothing about them, and have never had a steel that had them on them. They are both on the changer, in the lowering holes. One is on the fourth string, the changer rod, runs to a metal piece that goes from the front to the back body of the guitar, no idea what it is suppose to do. The other is on the 7th string, rod runs from the changer to the A pedal. Can anyone tell me how to use these, or what they are suppose to do? I am totally lost here. I can't see any difference in the tuning of it, or how it plays.
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Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 9 Jul 2020 3:43 am
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They are two very different things and should not be confused. The 4th string is a return compensator. The 7th string is in intonation compensator.
IF you want to use it (and there are many people who do not......I do) and depending on your system of tuning:
7th string: Unscrew the nylon nut until it does nothing. Tune the open 7th string to match the 5th & 9th strings (tune out the beats between the F# and the B's.) Then with the A & B pedals down and the C#'s tuned to whatever you tune them, see how much cabinet drop there is on the F# and if it is does not match the C#'s and still has beats, use the compensator to lower the F# a tiny bit.
I could describe the process for the 4th string comps but I'll let someone who has a better grasp do that. I have them on my guitar and I use them but I've always been a little shaky on the use of them (they are new to me on my new guitar). |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 9 Jul 2020 5:07 am
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| The return compensater rod is anchored to a cross brace under the guitar and it has one or two small o rings between the nylon nut & the changer finger. The nut is probably colored. With the compensater nut backed off a little bit, tune up your forth string open, lower & raise. If the 4th string comes back from the raise out of tune a little (sharp I think), adjust the compensater nut in a little at a time til it comes back true from the raise. I always lower it first then raise it to check. With the comp adjusted right all three notes will return true. I hope I got all that right, I’m not at a guitar right now. It takes a little tweaking. You’ll learn it quick. |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 9 Jul 2020 5:16 am
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| I’ll check the above info when I get home. I also have a procedure for Emmons LeGrand I’ll pass along. Either procedure should work in that the mechanicals are very similar. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 9 Jul 2020 12:05 pm
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The return compensators are for a string that is both raised and lowered. The raise is OK and will come back in tune but the lower will come back sharp (also called hysteresis). The "lower" compensator will tune out the lower coming back sharp.
Lower the string and release the pedal or knee lever and then tune the compensator to the lower comes back in tune, not sharp. lower than release and check the tuning. May have to do it a couple times to get it exact.
My Franklin had the lower compensators. When I bought it (ordered it) in Oct 82 the Franklin was the only production guitar that had the compensators. Mr Franklin claims to have invented them. That it had the compensators was the primary reason I bought the Franklin.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit (for sale) |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 9 Jul 2020 6:06 pm
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I apologize, looks like I had it kinda backwards. I was not at my guitar at the time I posted. Here are the Emmons Le grande instructions.
1 Back off the tuner.
2 Tune the open strings.
3 Tune the raise FIRST and then let off the raise
4 Engage the lower and then release it. The string will be slightly sharp.
5 Do NOT touch any string or pick it. This is very important!
6 Very slowly and carefully begin turning the nylon tuner clockwise, until the string comes back in pitch.
If you mess up like over doing it. START ALL OVER in THE ABOVE STEPS. For if you don't, you will chase your tail all day and all night.
Don't know who wrote this, I got it off the Forum with a search. I think it was C. Dixon. |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 9 Jul 2020 9:43 pm Compensator
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I thank all for the information. Going to print this, then start with the guitar. Not sire how, I'll do, can't hurt. More confused then before. I have owned a Sho=Bud Pro III, MSA Classic D-10, Zum Stage-Ones, Several Mullens. Now own a Zum Encore, Carter U-12, and this Zum U-12. I Can't understand, none but this Zum have had them. It seems only the high end, expensive steels need these. Why is this. Are the others out of tune most of the time, or are they more in tune most of the, and don't need them. Just wondering, why a ZUm top end model needs them, but a Stage-One, or Encore doesn't. A Franklin needs them, but MSA doesn't. Kinda crazy.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 9 Jul 2020 9:48 pm Compensator
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I guess I won't print it. I doesn't allow me to print the text, or copy and paste.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 9 Jul 2020 10:14 pm Compensator
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I might add, my Encore has the Emmons Deluxe Tuning, with the split tuning, works great, and no compensators.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 1:39 am Re: Compensator
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| Jim Reynolds wrote: |
| It seems only the high end, expensive steels need these. Why is this. Are the others out of tune most of the time, or are they more in tune most of the, and don't need them. Just wondering, why a ZUm top end model needs them, but a Stage-One, or Encore doesn't. |
Apart from the obvious: that high end PSG's may end up being bought by "more demanding customers" who want all the minor "tuning-deviations" eliminated, there are several mechanical factors that may or may not affect a given PSG positive or negative.
- intonation issues (string 7 comp in this case), is the result of "just" vs "tempered" tuning, is affected by "body-drop", and can be dealt with in various ways but is an issue that will, and can, never go away. Just Intonation Explained
- lower-return pitch issues (string 4 ease-in bumper in this case), is in most cases a string-to-surface-friction issue tied to how most changers are designed, and can be counteracted – the O-ring bumper, or eliminated – requires a redesign. Some details |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 3:47 am
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| I don’t have the knowledge of Jack & George both of whom I admire, but in my experience working on guitars, some work better than others, some folks claim to hear it & it bothers them, some don’t. The open tuning usually comes back in after you apply a raise until you hit the lower again. It’s your guitar. If it doesn’t bother you, back the nut off a little & don’t use it. I think if you’d take a little time & learn to adjust it, you’d like it & it doesn’t require readjusting often. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 4:45 am
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On my Franklin, once the drop (lower) return compensators were adjusted they never needed it again, unless different gauge strings were used.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit (for sale) |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 5:58 am
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| The Emmons LeGrande I worked on had a very similar system to the Zum except where the rods anchor under the guitar. I found it a little tricky to dial in. My Zum’s & the Zum’s I have worked on that have this system are usually pretty easy to adjust and rarely require readjustment but I was hesitant to use the word never here.😠|
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 6:46 pm
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I have it figure out now. Thanks to all, it does make a big difference. It really sweetens the minors for sure. I can see why they have them now.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Jeremiah Wade
From:
Bladenboro, NC
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Posted 11 Jul 2020 5:25 am
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Jim, the string 7 lower also makes the thirds sweet for chords with string 9 as the root.
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I'd rather be pickin' |
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