When I play the run on six-string guitar people tell me I don't do it right. How do you do it on E-9th with and without pedals? How about on a S-12? How is it performed on a six-string guitar?
Thank you;
Sherman
Andy Jones
From: Mississippi
Posted 10 Dec 2006 6:23 pm
Sherman,first make a G chord,then pick the 6th string,then pick 5th string,your index finger on the 1st fret,hammering on the 2nd fret.Then pick 4th string open,then finger on 2nd fret,picking and pulling off 2nd fret to open 4th string.Finish by picking 3rd string open.There are several variations of this according to the speed at which you are playing.I this as clear as mud?I'm just a beginner on the PSG,but I know bluegrass.Maybe some one else can give you a better of the G run,but that's how I do it.
Dave Mudgett
From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
Posted 10 Dec 2006 8:36 pm
If you're talking about the "Flatt Run" in G, what Andy says is a pretty standard way to do it in the lower register on guitar. A different approach is to follow string 6, fret 3, with a hammer on fret 5 and slide or hammer to fret 6 then fret 7, pick string 5, fret 5, hammer frets 7 and then 5, then pick string 4, fret 5. One can keep going up the neck in similar patterns - it's straightforward to do the same run going up 3 octaves like this.
An octave higher on guitar in the open position starts on the open 3rd string, then hammer the second fret and either hammer or slide to the third and fourth frets, then pick 2nd string, 3rd fret, and hammer the 5th then 3rd frets, then pick the 1st string 3rd fret. Add any flourish you like at the end.
On either E9 or standard E9/B6 U12, a couple of obvious ways to do it are:
1) Bar at fret 3, pick string 8, pick string 7, slide bar down to fret 2 and pick string 6 and slide into fret 3, then pick string 5 and pedal into and out of the E by depressing and releasing the A-pedal, then pick string 4. Good blocking is important on the first several notes.
2) A related approach, one octave up: bar at fret 10, pedal B down, pick string 6, pedal B up, then slide into fret 13, 14, 15, then pick string 5 and pedal into and out of the E by depressing and releasing the A-pedal and finally pick string 4, just like the first version. You can use this same approach lower on the neck starting in the key of A, but the first note is off the neck in G.
Lester played G-A-B-D-E-G. The timing's what's tricky.
D Schubert
From: Columbia, MO, USA
Posted 11 Dec 2006 6:29 am
Gary's got it right -- and there should be only one forceful pick downstroke on each string (6th, 5th, 5th, 3rd) -- the noting is done with left-hand hammer-ons and pull-offs -- to get authentic bluegrass sound.
Jerry Hayes
From: Virginia Beach, Va.
Posted 11 Dec 2006 6:32 am
And remember one important factor! Lester played with a Thumbpick! LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO!!......JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!
Bill Miller
From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
Posted 11 Dec 2006 9:16 am
I've never heard of a 'bluegrass G run'. It would be a great help if someone could post a soundclip of a 'G run' being played on steel for a reference. With no sound reference all the typed instructions are kind of heavy going. Does anyone feel up to posting a clip?
Wayne D. Clark
From: Montello Wisconsin, USA
Posted 11 Dec 2006 9:40 am
I'm with you Bill, A sound clip would be nice, Pulled out the BJ, dusted it off but "G" run fails my memory. Maybe I'll get down an old book on Dobro. may find it. there. I do think a little BG on the PGS would be cool. Although lets keep BG with its roots. Acoustic.
Desert Rose S10 3/5
Goodrich 120
Nashville 400
Jerry Roller
From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
Posted 11 Dec 2006 9:45 am
Or pick string 9 fret 5, then string 8, pick block and move to string 9 fret 8 and at the same time engage the E lowering lever, pick the 9th string, then the 8th string which has been lowered, then pick the 7th string, then the 6th string, 7th string again, then string 8 then string 5. With a little practice you can do this and it sounds like individual strings. All your notes after the first G and A are on the 8th fret with the E lever engaged. Or, if you have a knee that lowers the 9th string, you can engage the 9th string lower and the E string lower and do it all on the 8th fret, pick string 10, then 9 and release the 9th string lowering lever then pick string 8, string 7, string 6, string 7 then string 5. Get the correct blocking down and you have it. I think I got it right in my mind but if not you can find it here. This gives you individual notes without hearing the pedal pulls.
Jerry
Gary Lee Gimble
From: Fredericksburg, VA.
Posted 11 Dec 2006 3:14 pm
The "run" is heard numerous times throughout in the clip posted below. Once at one minute 38 seconds and a few thousand more times in this tune, one called Wheel Hoss.
Wayne D. Clark
From: Montello Wisconsin, USA
Posted 11 Dec 2006 5:16 pm
Gentelmen are we talking about that nilce little run that Stephen mentioned that L.F. uses. G-A-B-D-E-D-E slide to G, (5th fret) back to E-D-B-G. pull off, It workes very nicely on the Third Fret of the PGS with pedal "A" on the 5th string. 3rd Fret - Strings 8, 7, 6, 5, 5A, 5. 4, 5A, 5, 6, &8. Of course the timing has to be right to make it sound like the BJ or Guitar. I block it by raising the bar after each strick.
Desert Rose S10 3/5
Goodrich 120
Nashville 400
Wayne D. Clark
From: Montello Wisconsin, USA
Posted 11 Dec 2006 5:29 pm
Thanks Gary Lee for that Great Clip. You can catched it on the lead guitar, the Dobro, and a few othere places. Watched it twice just for the pleasure of the experience.
Desert Rose S10 3/5
Goodrich120
Nashville 400
Bill Miller
From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
Posted 12 Dec 2006 4:27 am
Yes, thanks for the clip Gary. That pins it down very well. Seems like it would be an awful lot easier to play on my six string than on my steel though.
I'm enjoying the clips of your own playing in the 'Steel on the Web' section. Amazing stuff!
Jim Sliff
From: Lawndale California, USA
Posted 12 Dec 2006 6:15 am
On an acoustic guitar instruction tape, Tony Rice spends about 20 minutes playing/teaching an amazing array of slightly different "G" runs as played by certain bluegrass flatpickers. There are many, many variations in timing and slight variations in notes as well.
The "G" run is a running joke in bluegrass circles, usually at the guitar player's expense.
Michael Johnstone
From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
Posted 12 Dec 2006 7:03 am
Also known as the "Uncle Pen run".
Michael Johnstone
From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
Posted 12 Dec 2006 7:05 am
BTW,as far as playing it on pedal steel,it's easier to play smoothly on C6 than E9 (for me anyhow).
Alan Brookes
From: Brummy living in Southern California
Posted 12 Dec 2006 5:41 pm
It's off the subject, but my impression is that in the video they're playing too fast. They're blurring notes. It would sound better slower. Music isn't a race.
[This message was edited by Alan F. Brookes on 12 December 2006 at 05:42 PM.]
Dave Mudgett
From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
Posted 12 Dec 2006 6:51 pm
I dunno. It's a bit faster than Monroe's original version from the 50s, but I think the pickin' here sounds pretty clean. Of course, it's personal preference. But sometimes, it's fun to just forget about the speed limit.
Scott Shipley
From: The Ozark Mountains
Posted 13 Dec 2006 4:19 am
Not to knock Lester, I love me some Lester, but he didn´t create his namesake run. It was a lick Monroe himself used on Muleskinner Blues in 1936, which was a variation of a Jimmie Rodgers lick from ten years earlier, which was yet another variation of a Leadbelly lick used on his first recordings some ten years before that. BTW, check out the singing brakeman´s guitar style in comparison to Leadbelly´s.........note for note, save the six string versus twelve string application. As for the quintessential g-run, which one do you prefer? Bill´s is slightly different than Lester´s, is different than King JM´s, is differenet than Del´s, etc, etc, etc. And btw, there is no hammer on or pull off on Lester´s version. That didn´t happen till about 1962. Credit for the first application of the hammer on/pull off in the by then standard g run can be given to either a Mr. LeBlanc or a guy from Missouri named Dillard. Both bands made their recording debuts that year.
Alvin Blaine
From: Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
Posted 13 Dec 2006 4:45 am
Quote:
Not to knock Lester, I love me some Lester, but he didn´t create his namesake run. It was a lick Monroe himself used on Muleskinner Blues in 1936, which was a variation of a Jimmie Rodgers lick from ten years earlier, which was yet another variation of a Leadbelly lick used on his first recordings some ten years before that. BTW, check out the singing brakeman´s guitar style in comparison to Leadbelly´s.........note for note, save the six string versus twelve string application.
Hey Scott, I know your a big Leadbelly fan, and do that Leadbelly fest, but you need to listen to some Skillet Lickers with Riley Pukett.
They all learned it from Riley Pukett, who was playing that same lick on records YEARS before all the above mentioned.
BTW.. Leadbelly's first recordings (June '33) were AFTER Jimmie Rodgers had already died, after Bill Monroe was an established performer with the Monroe Brothers, and about 12 years after Riley Pukett's recording career started.
So I don't think they learned the lick from Leadbelly, although many have.
Scott email me sometime, let me know what your up to.
[This message was edited by Alvin Blaine on 13 December 2006 at 04:55 AM.]
Scott Shipley
From: The Ozark Mountains
Posted 13 Dec 2006 5:22 am
Alvin! Nice to hear from ya man..........hope all is well out in Lost Wages, NV.
The first studio recordings credited to Leadbelly were in ´33, true. However, there were "car trunk" recordings made while he was incarcerated in Sugarland, Texas in 1918. These include the first recording of "Black Girl" aka, "In The Pines" and "CC Rider."
I´m hip to Riley, he rocks!
The bottom line, and what I was trying to get across is that there was and is a huge homogonization of influence, and licks credited more often than not incorrectly. Ie: Chet Atkins (Merle Travis) style guitar, Earl Scruggs (Snuffy Jenkins) style banjo, etc. Not that these guys didn´t "perfect" and further advance these styles, but they didn´t "invent" them per say.
Stephen Gambrell
From: Over there
Posted 13 Dec 2006 5:45 am
And all these years I thought it was Clyde Moody?
Alvin Blaine
From: Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
Posted 13 Dec 2006 5:59 am
Quote:
And all these years I thought it was Clyde Moody?
On Monroe's studio version of "Muleskinner Blues" Clyde was the Mandolin picker, and Bill did all the guitar parts.
Scott Shipley
From: The Ozark Mountains
Posted 13 Dec 2006 6:44 am
Alvin is right. And coincidentally, on Bill´s first GOO appearance (as his own act, not as The Monroe Brothers) in 1939, he played guitar not mandolin. The song was his then current hit, Muleskinner Blues.
Bill´s first choice was fiddle, something he just didn´t have the knack for, and his second instrument of choice was guitar, something his older brother had already staked a claim on. His brothers put the eight year old kid on mandolin and removed four strings so he would be seen and not heard.
