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Author Topic:  JBL vs Altec
Bill Duncan


From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 20 May 2020 5:30 am    
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What is the reason for an apparent bias of JBL over Altec speakers? I have used both and I lean more toward Altec speakers. That is my opinion but I like them both.
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Bill Hatcher

 

From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
Post  Posted 20 May 2020 11:43 am     Re: JBL vs Altec
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Bill Duncan wrote:
What is the reason for an apparent bias of JBL over Altec speakers? I have used both and I lean more toward Altec speakers. That is my opinion but I like them both.


JBL speakers were optional in fender amps back in the day. that gave them an edge over altec with name recognition. first of all, BOTH are great speakers. later on in the game, guitars sounding like chainsaws came into play and the beauty of a clean sounding instrument was not so much in vogue, so many other speakers came on the market touting distortion...JBL and Altec probably spent huge money in r@d trying to get rid of distortion! lol

anyway the fact that many players played a fender amp with jbls gives a bit more name drop to the jbl.

as far as sound.....like i said both are nice. i really love the altecs with the white frames and grey mag cover. 418 and 417 models. they are super fast!! your instrument responds so quickly to these models. i attribute it to the very very thin paper cones. too bad there are no original cones for EITHER jbl or altec, but at least there are reconers trying to get speakers back to as close as they can.

have used both and love them both, but i really do like the altecs better. i have a couple of 12" altecs that i need to make a small two 12 cab for. i also used the 418b 15" altec to play electric bass through for many years. it was the best sound i ever got. had it in an old ampeg B15 cabinet and drove it with a crown 300 amp and a tube alembic F2b preamp with a 1963 fender jazz bass. i never got a sound like that again.

the jbls sound great in the fender closed back cabs. back in the 60s, a dual showman two 15 cab with jbl speakers was a great sounding bass amp. we didnt need the high sound pressures back then. later on when stage volume got crazy, bass players went to ampeg svt stuff, but in smaller groups the showman was fine.

i went to see the allman brothers about 1970 or so. wondered how the guitars were getting that nice top end even with the distortion. all the marshall stacks were full of jbl 12" speakers.

guess i would have to say that the altec sound is just a little more prettier than the jbl....but not enough to not use them....Winking
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Bill A. Moore


From:
Silver City, New Mexico, USA
Post  Posted 20 May 2020 12:31 pm    
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I've only had one Altec that I used, a 15 watt 12" I traded for. When I was refurbing my old Airline, (5 watt SE amp), I e-mailed Ted Weber for thoughts on a speaker, mentioning that the Altec I had in it, was 16 ohm, he seemed interested in it, so I sent it to him. He was going to find an SRO 12 for me, but we lost him before he could.
I kind of wish I still had it for a Marshall 18W build!
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Bill Duncan


From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 20 May 2020 1:15 pm    
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Bill Hatcher, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your answer, I do hear the difference you mention. Bill Hatcher, Thank you.

Last edited by Bill Duncan on 21 May 2020 2:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 20 May 2020 4:15 pm    
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Altecs have an interesting sound for guitar. They sound more prominent in the upper mid-range.
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Tommy Boswell

 

From:
Virginia, USA
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 4:39 am     JBL and Altec
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Years ago I did a very unscientific low-volume at home shootout between a JBL K130 and an Altec 418-8H. I can't remember which amp or head I used (which makes a huge difference), but compared to the Altec the JBL sounded like it wanted to bite my head off. But maybe that's what you want on a bandstand. I kept the Altec and like a fool I sold the JBL.

For what it's worth (not much).
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David Ball


From:
North Carolina High Country
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 5:07 am    
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Godfrey Arthur wrote:
Altecs have an interesting sound for guitar. They sound more prominent in the upper mid-range.


I've used Altec 415s in a two way horn/low powered triode hifi situation for years. I have the crossover set at 500 hz, which matches the cutoff frequency of my multicell horns. They definitely have a great upper midrange sound in this setup, and the crossover keeps them from having the opportunity to bite your head off. For this application, I've definitely preferred Altecs over JBLs.

I've used both 418s and 421s for steel, and with the right amp they both sound good. But they do have a little more bite than I like with most of the amps I've tried. I'm mostly using an early D130 (not "F") now. Very low power handling capability, but very sweet.

Dave
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 9:00 am    
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David Ball wrote:
Godfrey Arthur wrote:
Altecs have an interesting sound for guitar. They sound more prominent in the upper mid-range.


I've used Altec 415s in a two way horn/low powered triode hifi situation for years. I have the crossover set at 500 hz, which matches the cutoff frequency of my multicell horns. They definitely have a great upper midrange sound in this setup, and the crossover keeps them from having the opportunity to bite your head off. For this application, I've definitely preferred Altecs over JBLs.

I've used both 418s and 421s for steel, and with the right amp they both sound good. But they do have a little more bite than I like with most of the amps I've tried. I'm mostly using an early D130 (not "F") now. Very low power handling capability, but very sweet.

Dave


Altec was the standard of the industry for PA systems with its venerable VOTT cabs Voice of the Theater. You would see them on stages and in studios.



A 500hz crossover would be ok for Hi-Fi listening to prerecorded music. For band and stage situations an 800Hz crossover would fare better. Many of the bands I've been in, we were moving these gray boxes or the smaller brothers but Altecs were the mainstay for serious band PA.

I agree it would depend on what amp you use the Altec woofers with and if you like more control on the bright side of things. A basic Fender Twin tone stack works mysteriously. The Treble pot is a blend control for the treble frequencies against the Bass/Mid frequencies.

When you increase the treble knob, it's reducing the level of frequencies on the Bass/Mid section while increasing the treble frequencies. So if you understand this, whatever you dialed in on the bass and mid knobs, as you turn up the treble knob, the bass and mid volumes you dialed in go down. They don't stay put! A solution then would be to turn up the volume knob to restore some of the presence of the bass and mids and tweak the treble knob (down mostly) to taste.

If wanting to stand out on a stage, the Altecs in a Fender Twin will get you there.

Let's consider that stage life was different back when these classic Fender amps were designed. You were not expected to have a sophisticated PA/FOH/monitoring sound system and in order for the audience to hear you, as well as yourself, your amp had to do its job of crossing the length of the stage and hopefully get most of the audience. Today that is not the case in many situations as high-tec PA/monitoring systems are abundant and the trend is to reduce volume on stage and let the PA do the work.

Here from the Duncan site is what's going on with your Fender tone stack. There is software available that you can download to play around with if you're designing amps or just curious.

http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/






Last time I heard an Altec in a Fender Twin, I liked what I heard and this was a few years ago after decades of not hearing an Altec. There's more mid-hi headroom. But I can see where something less bright like a JBL sitting next to the player would be easier.


Altec 418-8H 15 inch


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David Ball


From:
North Carolina High Country
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 10:46 am    
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The sectoral horns on top of the big cabinets in the VOT are 800Hz horns, and need an 800 Hz crossover. They work OK for Hi Fi, but the 500 Hz or even 300 Hz horns work better. As you say, different world from a stage setup. As long as the horn's cutoff frequency matches the electronic crossover frequency all is well (staying within what the drivers can actually produce).

My 500 Hz multicell horns (and the 300 Hz horns I had previously--they were way too big for my listening room!) all came out of movie theaters when newer, smaller JBL stuff was replacing them They were positioned behind the screen, playing through the screen. Every movie theater horn I've ever owned had splatters of paint from when the screens were repainted--the paint spattered through the screen into the horns....

Dave
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 11:07 am    
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Yeah Dave. These A7's are still found in audiophile listening rooms. The horn loading of the woofer is for long throw at distances. And the multi-cell horn throws the sound at distance as well.

Crossover points help a lot depending on the application and should be adjusted to taste to get the most of the system.

After that bi-amping is another avenue with electronic ctossovers.






For short distance I always liked these from JBL.


But for the A7's the crossover and horn attenuation knob work well enough.



If you like big in the living room these might have better control.

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Bill Hatcher

 

From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 11:14 am    
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i had a set of these years ago. 9844 i think. they sounded wonderful.
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David Ball


From:
North Carolina High Country
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 11:21 am    
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Those JBL horns are nice.

Yeah, the horns on the A5/A7 cabinets aren't nearly big enough to really be properly loaded horns--they are for long throw. They've never been heavy on bass, even with the bass reflex part of the overall cabinet design, but with the right drivers and crossovers they can still sound remarkably good. The bigger ones do sound better though if you have the room.

I used to lug around VOT stage equipment too. Don't think my back would put up with it nowadays (or maybe those big cabinets are part of the reason my back is old!)

Dave
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 11:27 am    
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Yeah so as not to get "old back" back in the 70's I built a pair of the Altec 1218's for a band I was in doing small clubs.


Original 1218A's.
Has a removable cover. Can put them up on stands.
Smaller Altec horns on this model than the A7's.

Do you remember the 1202's, 1203's 1204's?







Had wheels and handles.
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David Ball


From:
North Carolina High Country
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 12:26 pm    
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If I had known about the 1218s at the time, I'd have probably done the same thing...

Dave
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Dave Grafe


From:
Hudson River Valley NY
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 1:19 pm    
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Altec has a 3" voice coil
JBL has a 4" voice coil

Mostly the same otherwise, JBL has the edge in SPL per watt and clean power, which may or may not be your intention.

Also, there is (or was) this...


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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 21 May 2020 2:12 pm    
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Bill Hatcher wrote:
i had a set of these years ago. 9844 i think. they sounded wonderful.


Those sound good and are compact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HLySHoZO94



Made for studios with configured acoustics as they are flat in the bass region.
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Michael Castellana


From:
Massachusetts, USA
Post  Posted 22 May 2020 4:32 am    
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altec 19s (augmented w/ jbl 077 tweets) .. the home VOTT .. far end of my studio. they really benefited from rebuilt crossovers. wonderful sounding horns.

meanwhile ... i've had d130fs in a twin and evans for ever, love that speaker for steel. I've a few times tried d120fs and even d110f's in guitar amps and they were definitely not for me. fwiw i think ev sro's are incredible sounding speakers.

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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 22 May 2020 5:36 am    
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Nice! Mono blocs?

It takes some finesse to not blow the JBL D series.
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7
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Michael Castellana


From:
Massachusetts, USA
Post  Posted 22 May 2020 5:59 am    
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yes, godfrey ... found the first mc40 in the <trash> then on a gig was relaying this info to the bass player when he told me he had just renovated a house and found <one> there !? i knew he wanted a leslie for his studio so we traded on the spot!
funny how things work out.

fwiw i've had the same d130f in a 68' twin for 25yrs thru 100s of gigs, e9/c6 and haven't had a single problem.
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 22 May 2020 8:18 am    
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Excellent find Michael!




That room looks like a lot of fun!

I blew a D series and in a 35 watt Vibroverb. Rolling Eyes

I'll go E series. Safer for me.
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7
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Tim Whitlock


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 22 May 2020 8:39 am    
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I have tried several 15s in my Twin Reverb, including D130F, Weber NeoMag, Jensen Neo, Eminence Legend, etc, but the one that I finally kept in it for the last 10 years was an Altec 418b. The silky top end is the addictive secret sauce that pairs especially well with pedal steel.

PS: Those hi-fi rigs are killing me!
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Bill Duncan


From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 22 May 2020 9:29 am    
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All the pictures and information are great. I have learned some things. Not to mention I am jealous of some nice systems and finds.
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Tommy Boswell

 

From:
Virginia, USA
Post  Posted 23 May 2020 4:14 am    
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Tim Whitlock wrote:
I have tried several 15s in my Twin Reverb, including D130F, Weber NeoMag, Jensen Neo, Eminence Legend, etc, but the one that I finally kept in it for the last 10 years was an Altec 418b. The silky top end is the addictive secret sauce that pairs especially well with pedal steel.


I've been swapping speakers in my Allen Encore looking for the best fit for pedal steel...finally tried my Altec 417 that I've had for years. I liked it so much that I'm having my Altec 418-8H re-coned to use in an extension cab. "Silky top end" says it well.
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Bill Hatcher

 

From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
Post  Posted 23 May 2020 8:26 am    
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Tommy Boswell wrote:
I liked it so much that I'm having my Altec 418-8H re-coned to use in an extension cab. "Silky top end" says it well.


if you dont have an original altec 418 recone kit then you are wasting your money. thats the problem with these speakers. no more original kits and the people out there who are touting reconing jbl and altec back to original specs....well thats a gamble.

i think there is a recone company that specializes in altec recones. dont know too much about them.

there was a time when EV owned the altec brand. i used to have a guy who would save my altec paper cone and use an EV/altec voice coil. glue it all back together and i would have as close as i could get to the sound of the original speaker.

whatever you do, dont use a waldon generic cone. best of luck to you. maybe these folks could help. https://greatplainsaudio.com/products/ another link https://reconingspeakers.com/product/altec-416b-416c-model-19-recone-kit-8-ohm/
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Bill Hatcher

 

From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
Post  Posted 23 May 2020 8:33 am    
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Michael Castellana wrote:




i could very easily hide from covid 9 in this room.....
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