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Topic: C6th retune |
Jerry Knapper
From:
Lakeland, Florida , USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2020 4:58 pm |
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I play a 12U and a D10 at different places, or at least I did when we could get out and play.
Now both of them sit next to each other and I change off and on during practice.
On the 12U, of course I have a B6th tuning with the change lock and on the double the C6th so I have to know which fret plays which key.
I also play a 6 string and an 8 string non-pedal and have decided to use an E6th tuning on them.
What I am wondering, has anyone tuned the lower neck on a D10 to E6th so the fret positions remain the same? |
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George Duncan Sypert
From:
Colo Spgs, Co, USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2020 6:13 pm
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I know Wayne Gailey did back in the late 60's when I first ran into him at the Navajo Hogan in Colorado Springs.
He is the only one I ever ran into that played an E6th on the back neck. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 16 Apr 2020 9:58 pm
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I assume you would tune up from C to get to an E6th tuning, as tuning down to E would be so low that most strings, particularly the lowest ones, would be very floppy and mushing sounding, at least partially due to the fairly short scale length of a normal PSG. You would almost certainly have to go with heavier gauge strings if going lower.
For the same reasons, short scale length basses are almost always just 4 strings. If you want a five string bass with the low B note, they are always long scale. I think that's right.
A steel tuned up to E6th might not have the deep rich characteristics we normally associate with the back neck. But it could be interesting.
This seems like Covid-19 lockdown day-dreaming. 
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Apr 2020 10:56 pm
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Jerry, why not tune the C6 down to B6? You can do it in minutes without changing strings, and it'll make changing back and forth easy.
I started out on a D10 that way so when I changed to a uni12 I never felt a thing
As Paul says, going up to E6 would lose the distinctive C6 colour - there's a reason C6 became standard. B6 is close enough to do the job. In fact I prefer C at the first fret.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 18 Apr 2020 5:31 am Re: C6th retune
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| Jerry Knapper wrote: |
| I play a 12U and a D10 at different places, or at least I did when we could get out and play. Now both of them sit next to each other and I change off and on during practice. On the 12U, of course I have a B6th tuning with the change lock and on the double the C6th so I have to know which fret plays which key...What I am wondering, has anyone tuned the lower neck on a D10 to E6th so the fret positions remain the same? |
Well, it's doable, but you'd have to go down and beef up the string gauges to maintain the lower, fatter voicing of the tuning. The first string might wind up being about .018 or .020, and the 10th might be problematic, even with a .074 gauge (which is about the largest standard gauge available).
I don't know much about theory, but Ill throw this in.
Still, I can't see a good reason to do it. Your problem with the different fret positions may just be one of perception. For example, when I'm playing in "F" on C6th, I consider my "home fret" (which is fret 5) as my "open" (no fret) position. I see my IV chord as the fifth fret up (which is really fret 10), and my V chord as 7 frets up (which is really fret 12). I'm not seeing (or even thinking) F-Bb-C. Everything is referenced from my "home fret", or NP starting position.
This may not be what others do, but it's always worked for me. I don't "see" keys, per se. I just see numbers and intervals. Transposing is far easier if you "see" things as I-IV-V instead of C-F-G or E-A-B. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 18 Apr 2020 5:40 am
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B6th ?
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MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 18 Apr 2020 9:48 am
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I suggested that above
Glad we think alike.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 19 Apr 2020 7:53 am A6th v E6th?
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E6th seems to be too high as stated in Donny's thread above.
I've been considering tuning my Promat to A6th.
The reason is I still have trouble finding the positions on C6th. Maybe just because I've not played it enough?
In A6th the positions are basically the same as E9th with pedals down and thats what I use on my none pedal guitars as my favorite tuning.
Also A6th can still have all the same basic pedals and knee levers as C6 by just having slightly fatter strings. You can still have the 5th tone on the top string and also lower the bottom string 3 half tones with available strings.
The only thing stopping me now is the Promat was set up perfectly by Lynn Stafford last year with the C6th. This is the first push pull I've ever owned in 45 years and I don't feel comfortable with trying to work on it yet. It was in terrible shape when I got it and I'm very reluctant to get it in that shape again. 
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Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Jerry Knapper
From:
Lakeland, Florida , USA
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Posted 19 Apr 2020 4:28 pm E6th
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I certainly would not tune a C6th up or down to get an E6th tuning. I already have figured out the string gauge changes, just wondering if anyone else has done this.
B-.010
G#-011
E -.015
C#-.017
B -.019
G#-.24w
E -.o30w
C#-.036w
A -.044w
E -0.058w
I do use the 1-5-7 fretting, but on the 8 string the E6th works fine to recognize frets. Thanks for the replies. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 20 Apr 2020 12:02 am
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Although I don't believe he ever did that in practice, BE certainly thought it.
In his Basic C6 course he explained the tuning by equating the 3rd string on C6 to the 4th string on E9, not the 5th as most of us would now.
It has always seemed odd to me that a tireless experimenter like Buddy doesn't seem to have pursued the universal concept very far, whereas Jeff Newman (who was maybe a more conservative player) embraced it happily.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jerry Knapper
From:
Lakeland, Florida , USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2020 2:05 pm tuning
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| I haven't decided yet to try it, but still am pondering. I know Buddy tried several different things. I was at the booth at Nashville NAMM when Sierra brought him a steel with a light gauge string in the middle of the strings. I asked him how to use it and he just said, "Hell I don't know. It just gives me something to fool around with!" Mona and I got a chuckle out of that. |
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