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Topic: Reducing C pedal tension |
D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2020 5:03 pm |
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Hey gang, I have a Fender student model S10, purchased recently from an SGF member. Real happy with it and enjoying playing/learning again. One thing I’ve noticed is that the C pedal is pretty stiff. Requires quite a bit of pressure to complete its travel. I don’t see anything binding or causing any issues. Is there an adjustment that will reduce the tension? Will changing the rod position on the bellcrank finger make a difference and if so, which way would I reposition the rod? Closer to the underside of the guitar? Or further away? Any other thoughts?
You can see in the pic that the rod on the E is already in the lowest position (farthest from the cross shaft) and the B rod is in the middle.
Thx
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Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
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Posted 27 Mar 2020 5:19 pm
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Move the rods closer to the cross shaft to reduce the pressure in the pull. It will require more travel of the pedal.
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"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
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D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2020 5:41 pm
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| Thx, I suspected as such but wasn’t sure. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 28 Mar 2020 12:41 am
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The 4th string pull should be on the lowest position ( closest to the body) where it can still achieve the proper note. Start there.
release the 5th string from the pull, does that make any difference ?
You need to discover WHERE the extra pressure is coming from.
best
tp
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CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 28 Mar 2020 12:50 am
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Both pulls are naturally stiff, as they're raising a whole tone - I doubt whether one string on its own is to blame. I have always treated them as a pair.
This doesn't mean that Tony's experiment isn't worth doing if you're curious, but they do need to be timed properly so that you can use the C pedal to lower string 6 or 3 a whole tone (which was its original purpose).
_________________
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Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 28 Mar 2020 3:08 am
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If you want to maintain the pedal travel as it is, the pedal pressure could be alleviated by adding helper springs to changer fingers 4 and 5.
As your steel uses a pull-release changer mechanism, the helper spring tension would have to be determined by trial-and-error, to make sure that string 4 could still lower a half tone. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2020 7:50 am
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| It's probably easier to do it down by the floor where the pedal yanks the pull rod. Try moving the ball joint to the other hole (closer to the pedal rack). Be sure you tighten it snug, or it will break. |
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D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2020 8:03 am
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| I repositioned the 4th strong rod downward (3 positions) and got it to where the tension feels better. But now I can’t get the tuning on the E strong right. I backed the tuning nut all the way out. Tuned the E, then tuned up the raise to F#. E was then sharp so retuned the E. Raise was flat. Chased this all the way until the tuning nut was as tight as it goes but still can’t get these balanced. Not sure where to go next. Raise the rod back up one position (stiffer) and try again? |
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D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2020 8:04 am
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| D. Scheindlin wrote: |
| I repositioned the 4th strong rod downward (3 positions) and got it to where the tension feels better. But now I can’t get the tuning on the E strong right. I backed the tuning nut all the way out. Tuned the E, then tuned up the raise to F#. E was then sharp so retuned the E. Raise was flat. Chased this all the way until the tuning nut was as tight as it goes but still can’t get these balanced. Not sure where to go next. Raise the rod back up one position (stiffer) and try again? |
Ah. Didn’t realize there was another hole down there. Something to throw into the mix. Thx |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 28 Mar 2020 11:00 am
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| D. Scheindlin wrote: |
| I repositioned the 4th strong rod downward (3 positions) and got it to where the tension feels better. But now I can’t get the tuning on the E strong right. I backed the tuning nut all the way out. Tuned the E, then tuned up the raise to F#. E was then sharp so retuned the E. Raise was flat. Chased this all the way until the tuning nut was as tight as it goes but still can’t get these balanced. Not sure where to go next. Raise the rod back up one position (stiffer) and try again? |
D.
You can adjust your C pedal stop screw so that you have more travel, and less tension, but the c pedal will have more pedal travel. If I remember, this adjustment was close to maxed out when I set it up, can't remember offhand. |
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D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2020 11:50 am
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Thanks Mike. Your memory is right about it being maxed out - there isn’t even an adjustment screw there; the bracket that would hold it serves as the stop, so no where else to go.
But I just moved the rod back up a position on the finger and all is well—tension feels good, open and raise are in tune. Back to playing!
Thanks!
Last edited by D. Scheindlin on 28 Mar 2020 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 28 Mar 2020 11:52 am
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| D. Scheindlin wrote: |
Thanks Mike. You’re memory is right about it being maxed out - there isn’t even an adjustment screw there; the bracket that would hold it serves as the stop, so no where else to go.
But I just moved the rod back up a position on the finger and all is well—tension feels good, open and raise are in tune. Back to playing!
Thanks! |
Excellent! |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 3 Apr 2020 8:28 pm
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| Try the B rod on a lower hole at the bell crank that’s where your tension is coming from, you may have to extend the travel of the C pedal Or see if you have enough adjustment left in the rods for endplay |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2020 9:23 pm
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The problem you are having is why there is players that like the Day Set up on a steel. The C pedal sits on the left side higher than B&A, With this setup the C pedal has more travel, And takes less pressure to engage.
When the C-B-A pedals are setup proper, The B-A pedal are even at rest and at pedals down. The C pedal sits higher at rest than the B pedal, With more travel in the C pedal, When the B&C pedals are pushed down together. C is a shade higher than B so the ankle does not have to twist the foot perfect flat so B&C pedal notes pull to tune.
Set the 4 string up first and adjust the C pedal stop so the 4th string is in tune. With the 5 string being larger diameter it will tune within the 4th string stop.
If you play Emmons/Nashville setup you have to learn to rock your foot left a little so you can bring the B&C pedals down together.
Good Luck and Happy Steelin. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 4 Apr 2020 12:35 am
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As Earnest Bovine pointed out in earlier post here.
Most of our stiff action is actually caused by the rods position-linkage at the pedals near the floor. In the picture, they are connected furthest away from the hinge where the pedal moves and giving you the stiffiest action and shortest throw possible. It looks like there is 3 positions for that linkage(maybe 4) in the picture.
I have one guitar with 3 positions for the rod going to/from the pedals and I have tried em all.
Rod-link furthest away from pedal-hinge(your position) gave too stiff action and too short throw to use any halfpedals. 
Rod-link closest to the hinge of the pedal gave supereasy pedals but too much movement of pedal and I couldnt release B-pedal fast enough for what I liked.
Rod-link at middle of the 3 holes gave nice action and about perfect movement to be able do "accurate" half-pedal and quick press/releases of pedals if needed. 
Supereasy fix that shouldnt take more than a minute and you dont even need to turn guitar upside down to fix it.
The position of the rod at the pedal makes for quite a difference in feel and action. More than you might think if you havent tried it at any of the other positions. 
B.Erlandsen |
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D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2020 11:25 am
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| Thanks guys. I got it nailed but played around some more with it today just to get a better feel for what works and what doesn’t. I have two positions for the rod at the pedal. I did move it back to the closest position to the hinge. I’m happy with it and am getting a better feel for the mechanics. With my first steel 30 years ago (BMI student model) I didn’t have it long enough to ever have to adjust anything and my interim steel was brand new (I ended up selling it because my life got too crazy and couldn’t devote enough time to it to justify the expense). Now I’ve got lots of time I suppose...well, more time at home in any case. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2020 4:51 pm
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| Without reading any other posts, I will add: helper springs go a long way to reducing the torque required to actuate a pull. |
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