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Topic: 60s Supro Comet |
Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 7:02 am |
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Anyone here an expert on this model?
I owned one back in the 80s. It got stolen at a gig.
I recall really liking the tone and lately I heard an old recording of the band i was playing and confirmed this.
I did a little research and found that the pickup in that guitar, ie string through, was a major contributor to the tone.
Mine was the standard white and black with that plastic pickup cover - very aesthetically pleasing.
I've been thinking about making a clone and am hoping someone can shed some light on the following:
What type of wood?
Is the body hollow?
I notice from photographs that a consistent line appears following the perimeter of the flocked backside about a 1/4" in from the sides. This makes me think the guitar may be routed out from the back then capped to reduce weight.
BTW, if anyone has one of these in really sad shape and is willing to let it go for cheap I'd be interested in buying it to study it's construction. If you have a just a string through pickup sitting around, I'd be interested in buying that too for the same reason. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 9:03 am Re: 60s Supro Comet
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
| What type of wood? |
Maple.
| Jim Pitman wrote: |
| Is the body hollow? |
No, fully solid.
| Jim Pitman wrote: |
| I notice from photographs that a consistent line appears following the perimeter of the flocked backside about a 1/4" in from the sides. This makes me think the guitar may be routed out from the back then capped to reduce weight. |
Definitely no routing from the back; the chrome panel under the pickup lifts off, giving access to the wiring. The line is probably the edge of the plastic covering, which is frequently visible through the flocking. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 9:59 am
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Makes sense about the solid body/maple.
I think the MOT ones made in the 50s were covered with MOT laminate so that makes sense too. Perhaps the ones made in the 60s like mine (not MOT) were just painted. From what I can dig up MOT was not an easy finish so manufactures bought then applied the laminate.
I assume you own one Noah?
Can I bother you to measure the scale length?
Pickup resistance at the jack both controls at max?
I've researched the string through pickup. I used to manufacture pickups so I know a little. It's an interesting design, ie it must be highly inductive as the entire metal cover plate anchors the adjustable pole pieces. This means it becomes part of the coil core to a degree. That and the top plate is also contributes to the core inductance. I imagine the pickup is not very resistive since the core inductance swamps its' affect.
Tx for the info in any case. |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 11:14 am
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| Yeh i saw that one. Missing the pickup cover which would be hard to get, but yes the pickup alone. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 2:45 pm
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A little more research - The comet didn't get a pickup cover until 1951. So that one one Ebay is correct. Note there are no studs to hold down a pickup cover.
I bought it Glenn!
We're always trying to get our youth back aren't we.
At some point the Mother of Toilet Seat MOT finsish was dropped, mid 50s?
Now....... "replace the permanent cord with a proper Jack or not to replace, that is the question". - Billy Shakespeare |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 2:47 pm
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
| Perhaps the ones made in the 60s like mine (not MOT) were just painted. From what I can dig up MOT was not an easy finish so manufactures bought then applied the laminate. |
They were covered in the plastic wrap right up until the end of Valco in 1968. It was done because it was easier and cheaper than a traditional lacquer finish. With very few exceptions, they have 23" scale necks like the Comet.
| Jim Pitman wrote: |
| I assume you own one Noah? |
I've had a lot of Valco steels, but I don't recall having any Comets. Anything with this pickup is a similar instrument with different cosmetics. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 3:05 pm
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More great info Noah.
I should say then that all the ones I've seen after the 50s are pure white not MOT.
Plastic wrap - Wow what is that?
Still a viable finish?
Was it shrunk on?
I would think it would have to be to assume the complex curviture. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 4:07 pm
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| MOTS = a plastic wrap. It came in a zillion colors, some pearlescent and some standard opaque. I believe it was heat-shrunk onto the body, though there was also an adhesive underneath. There's no reason you couldn't still do it if you can find a supplier of the material, though I'm not sure if modern players would be as accepting of it. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 5:01 pm
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There are pictures of the old Fender factory where women were applying MOTS to the Fender lap steels of the day--they were holding the lap steel bodies and the sheets of MOTS over a heated tank of acetone. The acetone vapors would shrink the celluloid MOTS around the wooden bodies. I think this was probably the way that all of those old MOTS guitars were done back then--definitely not something you would want to undertake today!
Dave |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 6:22 pm
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My Supro has a thin plastic film finish... like cream-colored Monokote, a heat shrinked covering for model airplanes. I paid 300$ for it with a little 6x9 tube amp... smokin’ deal if you ask me!
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 9:18 pm
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I,ve been reading about acetone- the most volatile chemical on the planet. Won't be fu!@#$ with that!
Stephen wow, indeed. |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2020 9:49 pm
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| Congrats, looks like a nice one. |
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Peter Jacobs
From:
Northern Virginia
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Posted 9 Feb 2020 6:09 am
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Nice buy, Jim! I have a 1964 (according to the serial number) Jet Airliner. It has a two-tone plastic wrap finish. By lifting the control plate, I could see the plastic film was very thin. I’m guessing the savings to the company came from not needing to sand, prime and put multiple coats of finish on the wood, but I like the look, anyway.
It looks like you got a great deal. I’d say play it as is unless you’re getting shorts from the built in cord. If it flakes out on you, then put in a 1/4†jack. If it’s a player, then make it so you can play it. Have fun with it!
_________________
Peter
---------
www.splinterville.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@splinterville6278/videos |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2020 6:45 am
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Yes Peter, was a good deal considering it included shipping and a vintage case. Hopefully it will arrive in one piece.
The airliner is a slick higher end model by the looks.
From the research I've done, 1950 may have been the only year the comet had no black pickup cover. I found another one that looked similar. Somewhere in the mid 50s they dispensed with MOT and just went with pure white. The badge at the top is black and white on this one. Shortly after Supro used a very attractive blue and gold badge eventually moving it to the lower bout in the 60s. I had one of these as I mentioned before.
The other 1950 comet I found had the black plastic Supro high relief badge with the lightning bolt below it placed on the lower bout. It would be nice to find one of those somewhere.
We'll see about the power cord. If I can come up with some arrangement whereby I don't need to drill the hole in the body any bigger I will dispense with the attached cord. I really don't like the inconvenience of an attached cord. The knobs on the keys look like they are about to disintegrate. I've replaced plastic knobs before - no biggy. The in-line tuner metal is quite rusted but will probably clean up.
Maybe I'll post a restore photo at some point. |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 9 Feb 2020 7:00 am
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Look at the engineering in that cover plate. I was a tool and die maker for 36 years and appreciate the thinking that went into that plate. Six triangular pierce punches to hold the ball ends of the strings. A lance punch to cut 3 sides to form the bridge. A right angle form punch to bend the sheet metal at a 90* for the bridge. 8 round pierce punches to make the holes for the knobs, Pup screws, 2 round holes for plate mounting screws and finally one rectangular punch for the Pup itself. If this was made on a progressive die, it would have been a pretty involved die and very expensive I would think even in 1950. Most likely there were a few separate dies use to make the plate. Prog dies are generally made when a large number of parts are to be made and I doubt even in 1950 there was not a huge demand for Lap Steels. Probably a lot less today. I love looking at the way things were made in the past.......they were built to last, that is why you can buy that 1950 lap steel today Jim. It sure looks like a honey! You will be most happy with your purchase I am sure.
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 9 Feb 2020 7:04 am
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| The Comet was introduced in the late '40s and did not have a black cover until around 1951, give or take a year. The change from a pearloid covering to white happened in 1954-5. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2020 2:50 am
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Tx Noah again.
Bill, that's an interesting slant on the fabrication method of the bridge. I always assumed that was the cheap way out. ya know, one piece of metal performing all that functionality. That one plate does so much, even acts as the core of the pickup increasing its' inductance. (that's what I find fascinting)
In contrast, for the lap steel I built, I used an elaborately machined piece of angle aluminum, a brass rod two springs and screws for intonation adjustment. That encompasses four different material compositions and separate machining operations, not to mention dependence/procurement of standard parts. Notice I didn't even mention the pickup purchase.
But as you say, punches/dies are expensive. My guess is that they must have had big hopes for the market and positioned themselves to be able to crank them out. Looking at the production numbers they may have not been far off. I've noticed that concept is used on many different valco/supro models using the the string through pickup over the years, the only difference being the outline shape of the plate. Hat's off and a nod to Supro for reducing the production cost incredibly without sacrificing quality.
BTW Bill those pics you sent me of the lap steels you built really reflect your knowledge and experience - great job by a master. |
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