Used a BF Princeton Reverb on the gig...

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

We have a soundman and the venue has a pro sound system. The little 12 watt amp with the original speaker (35 watt Jensen) kept up fine with a 6 piece band. Drums, electric bass, keyboards electric guitar and acoustic guitar. I didnâ€™t even need it in the monitor. Yes, we play quiet and have dynamics. My ears and back are very happy!

Thereâ€™s something special about the Princeton circuit. They sound sweet.
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Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

Dave, I agree on the Princeton but am amazed that it worked for a 6 piece band. I tried using a Super Champ xd and was way under powered for a 3 piece band. I switched to my Peavey special 130 for the balance of the gig. I would love to see that clip of your band in action. Congratulations on your sound crew.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

ajm · From: Los Angeles

"We have a sound man and the venue has a pro sound system."
And.....
"Yes, we play quiet and have dynamics."

Well, it's pretty obvious where the problems are here. ;>))

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

A Princeton Reverb will be my next and probably last amp acquisition (no really!). I have a stack of big amps that are gonna have to go.

Eric Dahlhoff · From: Point Arena, California

Princetons do sound great. But having band mates that can play at a low enough volume is a rarity. Oh I wish, I wish... Laughing

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John Neff · From: Athens, GA

I too, have a BF Princeton Reverb with it's original Jensen, and I once used it outdoors, without a mic, with bass, drums, electric guitar, acoustic and vocals through the PA. I could hear myself fine and everyone said it was loud and clear.
After owning several "boutique" amps, I'm back to all Fender - Vibro Champ, Princeton Reverb, Deluxe Reverb, Bassman, Dual Showman..one for every situation.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Great if they work for you ! They are fine little amps. I like them and I've used them , but for me, they don't provide enough juice.

So am I reading that the reason ALL OF US don't use a PR all the time is because our bandmates don't know how to play soft and with dynamics ? Question

WOW ! did PV miss the Boat ! Laughing

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Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

i had a BF Princeton in MINT condition several years ago..
Used it on a couple guitar only gigs, and with a strat or tele, just a marvelous sound.. So much better than most larger Fender amps.... bob
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Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

absolutely one of the best amps ever!!

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

I use an original '65 or a '70's Princeton Reverb (non mic'ed) for electric guitar, and pedal steel in small rooms, or either guitar mic'ed in any situation. Each Princeton has a 60's Altec 425 speaker.

For bigger rooms, if un mic'ed, I use a '67 Pro Reverb. I put Jensen C12 K's (100W rating) in it, instead of C12N's (recommended replacement). C12K's were recommended by my friend and amp builder Rob Lohr at Allston Amps in Boston. The C12K is about 2 pounds heavier than C12N, making it about 4 pounds heavier than if I had used C12N's. But hey, what's 4 more pounds added to a ton???

I've thought of getting a small Quilter or other head and trying it through my open back cabinet that's loaded with a 15" JBL K series speaker, which isn't too shabby.
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Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Curious as to how you set your bass and treble controls. On my silverface PR I usually dime the bass and barely open the treble for pedal steel. (Edit) Should have mentioned that mine still has its stock Fender Special Design CTS speaker.

Agree that these things are among best-sounding amps ever made.

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

VOL 5, Treble 6, Bass 5, Reverb 3-4.

There are a lot of variables..room size, band size, acoustics.

Volume at 5 is pushing it - I'd prefer 3 with a mic. If the signal is going to the house board, you are basically using the amp as a monitor if you don't have in-ears or a headphone.

Keep in mind that an Altec 425 is a way different speaker than a stock Fender speaker.
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Tal Herbsman · From: Wisconsin, USA

Thinking of following suit and buying a used one. a couple of questions:

1. There seems to be a premium on BF princetons. Is there a big differencebetween the early SF and BF PRs?
2. lore in other threads is that the non reverb model has better headroom, any opinions on that?

thanks,
Tal.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

Tal

I have a '65 BF and mid 70's SF , both with reverb, but haven't A/B'd them. They both sound great to me.

I haven't checked prices lately, but I thought $1500 was ridiculous when I bought a BF PR about 10 years ago, and around $1000 for a silver face at a later time, but have never regretted it, and have enjoyed some nice sounds from them for the last 10 years.

As far as vintage,the non reverbs go for quite a bit less, and you could get a really nice reverb pedal - that's for another topic. I'd look for a mid 70's - it's a period of the least desirable years.

If you are getting a reissue, look at the '65. I work on my amps, but have not seen under the hood of a reissue, so I can't say how easy or hard it is to repair. Repair wise, the vintage ones, in my opinion are the gold standard.

Again-- lots of this is my opinion. A lot of stuff sounds great out of the box - how long it lasts and its ease of repair/maintenance is another story
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Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

CBS didn't tinker with the smaller amps nearly as much as the larger ones. BF & SF Princeton Reverbs were more alike than different. Circuit wise, they didn't change much from 1964 to 1981: early SF amps gained a 3-position on/off/ground switch; later SF models sprouted a pull-boost volume control. The cabinet did evolve (cheapen) in both materials and construction. And the speaker vendors changed from Jensen to Oxford to CTS.

Some 19xx D-28s sound better than others. Just as some original (non-reissue) Princeton Reverbs sound better than others. But they can all sound great with the right speaker when serviced to spec.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I use a '74 Princeton Reverb quite a bit with steel for practice and smaller gigs, as well as with guitar gigs my surf/punk/trash/twang band. On the latter, some club owners bitch if I try the Dick Dale thing with more juice than that.

I personally like my Princeton with a JBL. Right now there's an MI-series 10" speaker in mine. I've owned lots of Princetons over the years - I stupidly sold a pristine pair of '66 blackface PRs 20 years ago. That should qualify me for some form of the Darwin award, I think.

I'm not ever going to argue that a Princeton or Princeton Reverb is the perfect amp for every situation. Sometimes I really do prefer to have more horsepower and especially a bigger cabinet. I think, especially with Fender amps, it's important to have a range of power capabilities available. But for a smaller room, more controlled stage volume, and mostly E9, the Princeton is very hard to beat. In my experience, larger amps can often overwhelm a mix heavy on acoustic instruments - the Princeton really lays in that type of mix very nicely.

Aside from the physical construction issues Jack mentioned, I think there is precious little difference between blackface and silverface Princeton Reverbs, at least up to the silly push-pull distortion switch in the late 70s. Yes, the screwed-in (BF and early SF) vs dadoed-in (later SF) baffles, different wire, 3-prong vs. 2-prong (actually a plus for SF) do give the nod to BF and early SF. But I actually have a modest preference for SF because I have generally found them a bit cleaner, I think the later output transformers are a bit more robust. IMO, not all changes on Fender amps through the SF era were negative.

Another point about BF/SF Princetons - they have bias modulation tremelo instead of the "bug" on the larger amps. Much smoother.

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

the magic of the Princeton Reverb is the cathodyne phase inverter. That circuit provides one of the warmest and fullest sounding clean tones that you will ever get from a tube circuit.

The higher power fender amplifiers do not have that kind of phase inverter - its typically found in the Princetons and Tweed era Deluxes and maybe a few more models.

I put that circuit into a few of my models but its not efficient. You can squeak out about 20 watts if you really push the voltages and 35-40 watts if you double up on output tubes on either side but if you want that tone with high power its just not going to happen. Savor those gigs where you can get away with a Princeton thats the good life right there!
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Fender should never have put volume knobs that went to "10" on these smaller amps. They should have stopped at 3 or 4 .

That way future generations would not have had to debate this stuff ! Very Happy

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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
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CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

[quote="Dave Zirbel"]

ajm · From: Los Angeles

Dave Mudgett wrote: "Aside from the physical construction issues Jack mentioned, I think there is precious little difference between blackface and silverface Princeton Reverbs, at least up to the silly push-pull distortion switch in the late 70s."

I posted on this in an earlier reply.
I have a 1977 or so PR with the pull boost.
I'm primarily from a rock background, and IMO the pull boost function sounds horrible.
But if you don't use that, it's a different and pleasant story.

I traced out/compared a couple of schematics once.
One was for the 1977, the other was for an earlier non-boost version (I don't remember which).

From what I saw, if you don't use the pull boost, there is no difference.
There *might* be, but I didn't see it.
But even the pull boost versions have gone crazy with their prices.

One alternative to a Fender might be any of the several clones out there.
You can get them already built, or some are also available in kits.

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