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Topic: Neo magnet speakers--is it just me? |
David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 3:31 pm |
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The light weight of neo-magnet speakers is certainly appealing to old guys like me, but to be honest I've never found one that I really liked. For example, comparing the Double T 12 to the PF-350, the PF just has a little something that the Double T lacks. Seems like the specs are pretty similar between the two, but the big heavy ceramic magnet seems to make a difference. The neo is OK, but seems to just lack something.
I've also tried SICAs and some other neo magnet speakers, and none of them really moved me. I still prefer the sound of Alnicos all in all, but even the ceramic speakers I've tried sound better to me than the neos. I don't know exactly what it is. Anybody else find this to be the case, or is it just me?
(One exception I'll make--I've used some fairly hi-tech full range hi fi drivers with fancy arrays of neo magnets that really deliver! They're no lighter in weight than their ceramic or alnico cousins, but they do sound great, and very much in an alnico way....)
Dave |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 3:39 pm
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Not just you. I tried my damndest to like a Telonics 15" in my Nashville 400, and also with a MarkBass head. There was no life in the sound. Could not compete with the 18,000 pound BW 1502 I have. After about a year of swapping the 2 back and forth, I finally dumped the Telonics.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 3:51 pm
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The problem with neo speakers is really the market for them. People associate the magnets with modern, hi-fi sounds instead of the old Alnico and ceramics that obtained "classic" status decades ago with their own signature voices. Most of the neo speakers on the market are designed to sound fairly neutral; the exceptions, like the Eminence Lil' Texas or the Celestion Neo Creamback, have vibrant sounds that are much closer to the "classics". If you try one of these speakers aimed at guitarists, you may be surprised.
Last edited by Noah Miller on 21 Nov 2019 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 4:03 pm
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I did field testing of the Eminence EPS-15C. The first time I tried it I immediately thought "this sounds exactly like the JBL K-130 that I had in a Fender Twin Reverb".
I also tested the EPS-15C in a Nashville 1000 and thought it sounded better than the stock 1501-4 BW.
I have one of the new Fender Tone Master Twin Reverbs. It has Jensen Neo speakers. They don't sound like JBL D-120F's that were used in old Twin Reverbs but they sound very good.
I won't argue with others that think they suck. Just how someone wants to hear the sound.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 5:34 pm
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Not just you,David.
I've tried several and just haven't found one that worked for me. I do have an old CTS 12" in my current favorite amp (DRRI). That old speaker weighs about the same as a neo. I also find that some Webers (12f150, for example) are light enough that there's little weight advantage in a neo.
That said, I am becoming dangerously intrigued by the Tone Master Twin (must have read a couple of hundred posts on other forums, and it is shocking how well they are being received), so neo Jensens could be in my future. And all these vendors offering 48 month no interest financing is just simply not fair to weak-willed, GAS sufferers like me! |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 5:36 pm
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It’s not you. The heavy stuff sounds best to my ears too.
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 5:38 pm
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If you're used to a speaker that has a "sound" because its frequency response is not flat (intentionally, in a good way) then something that is substantially flat like the Telonics will sound, well, flat.
I don't mind. I'm not chasing a classic sound and I enjoy seeing what I can create with the guitar, the preamp and the effects.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Chris Grigsby
From:
Boulder, CO
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 6:09 pm
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Most amp circuits are designed with a reference speaker, so I'm not surprised that certain speakers may not work with circuits designed for a completely different response. The Telonics Neo speaker in my Telonics amp is a match made in heaven, but those two were definitely designed to work together.
Having said that, I had a Telonics Neo in a Milkman 40W Pedal Steel Mini and also in a Little Walter Paul Franklin '89 and they also sounded sublime.
Best,
Chris
_________________
Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 6:10 pm
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If you're thinking it's the difference in magnets causing the sound variance, maybe swap the Peavey BW big magnet for one of their neo ones to the same basket. I know it's hard to find just the magnet now, but I'm sure someone here has done it.
Otherwise, I think you'd just be comparing different styles and brands of speakers. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 7:25 pm
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| ...maybe swap the Peavey BW big magnet for one of their neo ones to the same basket. I know it's hard to find just the magnet now, but I'm sure someone here has done it... |
I posed that question in another thread, there was only one response from someone who done that, but that response was that there is no sound difference switching magnets on the same basket/cone. I can't see why there would be unless the different materials somehow create a different magnetic field that alters the way the coil moves for a given input signal. It would be good to hear from someone with some specific technical expertise on the subject.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2867152 |
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Travis Toy
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2019 7:53 pm Re: Neo magnet speakers--is it just me?
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| David Ball wrote: |
The light weight of neo-magnet speakers is certainly appealing to old guys like me, but to be honest I've never found one that I really liked. For example, comparing the Double T 12 to the PF-350, the PF just has a little something that the Double T lacks. Seems like the specs are pretty similar between the two, but the big heavy ceramic magnet seems to make a difference. The neo is OK, but seems to just lack something.
I've also tried SICAs and some other neo magnet speakers, and none of them really moved me. I still prefer the sound of Alnicos all in all, but even the ceramic speakers I've tried sound better to me than the neos. I don't know exactly what it is. Anybody else find this to be the case, or is it just me?
(One exception I'll make--I've used some fairly hi-tech full range hi fi drivers with fancy arrays of neo magnets that really deliver! They're no lighter in weight than their ceramic or alnico cousins, but they do sound great, and very much in an alnico way....)
Dave |
David, there are so many factors at play, besides the speaker. It’s funny...to me, the TT12 has a character that Paul’s speaker lacks. It just goes to show how differently we all hear and play. As someone else pointed out as well, it’s always a great benefit to be able to design a speaker for the particular amp you’re using at the time. That was the situation I was able to take advantage of for both of my TT speakers. Even though they sound pretty great (to me) in most applications I’ve heard them in, I really tweaked them with Quilter amps. This is a little bit of the magic that is happening with my new 12†combo with Quilter. Those 3 components (amp, cab, speaker) are more complimentary to each other than possibly anything I’ve ever played through. Not sure if you heard the clip of Johnny cox playing through my new combo the other day, but it was pretty incredible sounding. I’ll post a link below.
Anyway, the main point is...there’s not one thing that’s perfect for everyone. There are countless factors at play besides the speaker, and they’re all in the pot together, so to speak. If you find something that works great for you, and compliments what you do, then that’s the right choice, no matter what anyone else says or thinks.
https://youtu.be/yZyi9XPVxMg
-t |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Nov 2019 1:22 am
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well my take, there is no such thing as "they are just the same, they sound the same". Nothing is exactly the same. Are they supposed to sound exactly the same ?
All Guitars don't sound the same with the same amps and speakers. All players don't sound the same with the exact same guitars.
The NEO speakers sound pretty good, I have one in a small amp. I hear differences but not enough to go back.
What TT says is exactly correct, too many variables.
If we like them, great , if we don't well thats not a bad thing either.
We have another option, go back and use what we like , what sounds good to our ears. 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 22 Nov 2019 1:52 am
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Chris has a good point. A combo is just that, and maybe it's misleading to consider the components in isolation.
However, Telonics seem to have coupled a flat amp with a flat speaker, which makes it a kind of super-loud hifi!
If I want to play to a backing track my stereo rig delivers it faithfully. I'm not sure all amps will do that.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 22 Nov 2019 2:47 am
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I agree with what Travis and Tony and Ian have said--and I certainly didn't intend to diss the Double T 12. Even 2 copies of the same model speaker there are going to be differences in sound. How well was each broken in? What kind of cabinet? What's it hooked up to?
But it's just like guitars. What's the sound that's in YOUR head? That's going to be different with different folks. For me, I get the sound that's in my head from an old Sho Bud going through a Standel amp into a JBL D130 (although there are some other old alnico speakers that also get the sound I like). But that sound isn't for everybody. I have a Quilter amp that I run through a Double T 12 in a Telonics cabinet that certainly sounds good, but it sounds better to me with my Excel than it does a Sho Bud. Likewise, the Excel doesn't sound as good to me through the Standel as it does through the Quilter.
But for the sound in my head, I still haven't played a neo speaker that has moved me away from the JBLs. I've played on some that sounded good, but still lacked that certain something with the rigs I've tried.
Anyway, enough of my rant.
Dave |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 22 Nov 2019 3:53 am
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I think all musicians have a sound in their head, which is their motivation for playing at all!
A "good" saxophone is one that enables that sound more easily than some other one (which may be another guy's great instrument).
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 22 Nov 2019 4:26 am
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And I'll be the first to admit that I have somewhat quirky tastes. In banjos (my main instrument for many many years--guess that disqualifies me), I've always been attracted to somewhat odd old banjos and newer banjos that don't really fit into the "norm." In hi fi, I prefer low powered direct heated triode amps going into horns. The sound that's in my head isn't necessarily the sound that's in the mainstream. But like you say, it's that sound that drives me to play or listen to music in the first place.
Dave |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2019 10:14 am
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| The sound I hear in my head is also an old Altec or JBL D series. I've tried many neos in my Twin Reverb and the only one that came close is a Weber Neomag 15. In fact I liked the sound of that speaker as much or more than my D-130F but unfortunately it would crap out when things got loud. It may be part of the reason Weber discontinued the Neomag speakers. |
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Fred Rogan
From:
Birmingham, AL USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2019 10:57 am
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I had a TT-12 in my Allen Amp Encore and I loved it. Played mostly telecaster through that and it was very accurate and warm to me.
Now I have two Eminence Lil' Texas speakers in my Twin cab and thought maybe I had made a mistake at first but as they have begun to bloom, I am very pleased with them. I use the Twin mostly for steel. The Lil' Texas are clean and warm throughout the range and I am still expecting them to open up some more (two months old).
I have always wondered what percentage of my tone was attributable to speakers when you consider what all is in the signal path:
my hands, bar, picks, pickups, guitar body, volume pedal, cables, pedals, amp electronics, speaker, cab, room, ears and on and on.
Forgot - I have an Eminence EPS 15" , also a Neo, in another cab that I use with my Dr Z and I love that speaker.
_________________
Show Pro SD10 guitars
Milkman Amps |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 22 Nov 2019 5:39 pm
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| Ceramics, Neos, and Alnicos...they all sound slightly different. (But your audience would probably never notice it.) Instead of trying to get your "old sound", try to find a new sound that's better. I think that's what most of the pros have done. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 23 Nov 2019 3:19 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
Chris has a good point. A combo is just that, and maybe it's misleading to consider the components in isolation.
However, Telonics seem to have coupled a flat amp with a flat speaker, which makes it a kind of super-loud hifi!
If I want to play to a backing track my stereo rig delivers it faithfully. I'm not sure all amps will do that. |
Interesting - I personally would hope my steel amp doesn’t sound like my stereo! |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 23 Nov 2019 3:21 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Ceramics, Neos, and Alnicos...they all sound slightly different. (But your audience would probably never notice it.) Instead of trying to get your "old sound", try to find a new sound that's better. I think that's what most of the pros have done. |
Why is a new sound better? For example, I prefer Lloyd’s tone to Paul’s - not because of the age, but because it just appeals to me. |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2019 5:59 am
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It’s not you. I’ve tried and tried to like them. They’re just missing that smoothness we are all looking for.
_________________
Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 23 Nov 2019 6:08 am
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| Marc Jenkins wrote: |
| I personally would hope my steel amp doesn’t sound like my stereo! |
 Yes, the argument was assuming a certain standard...
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Nov 2019 7:05 am
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| Marc Jenkins wrote: |
Why is a new sound better? For example, I prefer Lloyd’s tone to Paul’s - not because of the age, but because it just appeals to me. |
Well, to begin with, there really is no "better", there is only personal preference based on what each of us likes. But if you look at the pros, the vast majority did not stay with the same equipment they started with. Most of them constantly changed equipment. And it's only logical to assume that, in many cases, they made those changes for an improvement of their sound.
Consider tube amplifiers. The old RCA tubes (and a couple of other extinct brands) that used to be readily and cheaply available are now out of reach for most players. There's no denying that they were the "gold standard" for sound, but players had to learn to make do with the new stuff, and part of that "making do" is just reprogramming your tastes...and pulling the absolute best out of what you're forced to use. Now, I'm sure a few of them still pine for the old days (and those old tubes) every time they fire up their tube amp. But how much good does that really do?
Happiness is a state of mind. It sounds silly, but it's really true. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2019 7:25 am Neo magnet speakers....is it just me?
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Neo's just don't do it for me.I have had the TT-12, Telonics, Tommy White recommended Eminence in a Nashville 112, and Eminence Delta-lite that was in my Evans SE 200. They were all good sounding speakers, but they all were lacking something compared to my JBL D-130's. I also tried a PF-350. I'm through speaker experimenting. The only one that I would like to try is the Eminence 15-C. Is the lighter weight the only reason for the popularity of neo's?
Has JBL jumped on the bandwagon and producing neo's?
If not, maybe for good reason. |
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