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Topic: Someone please invent this: Feel-Stop for volume pedal |
Jacek Jakubek
From:
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 12 Nov 2019 9:26 pm |
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I was thinking if it would be possible for a volume pedal to have a mechanical feel-stop installed that would let you feel with your foot where your baseline playing volume is. Just like the feel-stop or half-stop on knee levers.
Ideally, it would be adjustable, so players could set the stop to be at 30%,40%, or whatever their usual volume is that they return to on the VP with the foot. Bonus if you could also adjust the firmness of the stop. This feel-stop would allow faster and more sure return to your regular volume, with less chance of over-shooting and causing that annoying volume pumping sound. It could be especially helpful for beginners, sort of like volume pedal "training wheels."
I have not heard of such a thing yet. I'm thinking maybe some kind of small unit with a spring inside to be installed under the heel of your VP. When you come back down to your baseline volume, the spring activates and you feel slight resistance with your foot when going below your volume. Or maybe some kind of "click" that you can feel with your foot...I don't know, I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me it should be do-able.
You guys think it's possible, or even worth exploring? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 5:32 am
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I think it is unnecessary. With a little practice, you will be able to find that spot every time with muscle memory. Since volume pedal usage, to me, is a very big element of expressive playing, I wouldn't want any glitch or increase in resistance anywhere in the pedal travel.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 6:17 am
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I understand the concept but agree with Richard I don’t think it’s necessary. Mainly, the baseline opening of the volume is going to be so absolutely different almost even between songs and music styles not to mention room acoustics. It’s still an understandable idea. What happens for me anyway is that no two playing situations is ever the same. So you might have that half stop set to get the expression you want at your practice room but then take it out on a bandstand and quickly realize you are probably going to use the full sweep of the volume pedal to keep up tone and sustain.
Lots of folks like “features†on things. So I would bet if it was available some folks would
Get it just to try it. My take fwiw.
Bill |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 6:23 am
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I've often thought it would be cool to have a little digital LED screen on the pedal that tells you where you are (e.g. 80% of max, etc.). Honestly, that's the one thing that keeps me from playing C6 with 2 feet - I tend to 'whomp' the V.P. when I get back on it. Maybe I just have to finally commit the time to learn to do it well. But a little LED would be nice... 
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 6:58 am
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| The little device you are wanting is called practice...use your ears. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 8:47 am
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I think it'd be useful for the exact reason Jacek said, for beginners. The volume pedal was the last big hurdle for me to play competently. If we want more quality playing, this is one way to do it. Everyone except for us cares about whether it sounds good, not how much skill and practice it took to get there.
Even for experienced players, it's always a guessing game in a live setting to put yourself at the right volume in the mix based on how you think it sounds in the middle of the room. If you're only operating on muscle memory, you do what sounds right only on your part of the stage... and many soundmen don't have enough experience with steel guitar to know where it belongs in the mix. If you can setup your volume pedal ahead of time to compensate for that, why not? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 8:47 am
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Here is how I did it on a couple of Goodrich pedals:
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 9:09 am
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| Great idea Doug! I did it with a flat spring and a detent however it made it a bit to go around it smoothly- I like yours- simple, cheap, and effective. |
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Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 11:56 am
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| I normally crank the volume up on the steel lead parts then stop and let the lead guitar or singer take over. So I would have no need for this. |
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Michael Sawyer
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 1:34 pm
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I put a minimum level stop on my Ernie Ball.
It is adjustable ,but I never change it.
I set it up so I am at a " rythm" volume with my heel down.
I found it was easier for me to control about 40% of pedal travel,and it helped me alot.
But then I'm an oddball anyway,and would never advise any body to try andlearn this instrument the way I have.... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 5:22 pm A "dingus" you don't need...
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It's probably good to avoid this sort of thing. The reason is that it becomes a crutch, limiting you to only playing your rig. I could see where you'd become overly dependent on it, thus preventing you from ever sitting in on anyone else's rig and playing it properly. It would also tend to severely restrict the smooth use and seamless sweep of the pedal.
I try to be open minded about playing accommodations, but IMHO this is just a bad idea.  |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 5:39 pm
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| Even for experienced players, it's always a guessing game in a live setting to put yourself at the right volume in the mix based on how you think it sounds in the middle of the room. If you're only operating on muscle memory, you do what sounds right only on your part of the stage... and many soundmen don't have enough experience with steel guitar to know where it belongs in the mix. If you can setup your volume pedal ahead of time to compensate for that, why not? |
Agreed. If the device (spring?) was smooth enough to be able to push through without causing an audible "bump" in volume, yet firm enough to feel, I think it would be a good feature, particularly when you have to kick off a song.
It would be nice to have a dependable reference point.
I'm assuming this device is designed to be felt when the volume is lowered to a certain volume. You would only push through it when going below that reference point.
I would consider it a tool, not a crutch.
Lee, from South Texas |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 5:46 pm
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For the life of me, I cannot imagine the need for such a thing.. However, some much better players than I will ever be are advocating it, so it could be my loss.. bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Jacek Jakubek
From:
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 13 Nov 2019 9:19 pm
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Wow, some of you guys have already even attempted this, I'm impressed.
Michael Sawyer: That is exactly how I have my Hilton VP set, heel down is my rhythm volume. I just can't play with my foot floating in limbo like most steel players. Having this kind of device would allow me to get the full volume pedal sweep and still have the grounding reference point.
Lee Baucum: It would definitely need to be smooth and have no glitches...best if it was a feature of the volume pedal from the manufacturer. I don't have the energy anymore to rig something like this myself and start modding pedals, what about practicing scales, blocking, learning songs...Only so much time and energy.
If a company made a VP with this feature and it worked well, I would buy it. |
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Dylan Schorer
From:
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2019 8:39 am
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| I've often thought it would be cool to have a little digital LED screen on the pedal that tells you where you are (e.g. 80% of max, etc.)... |
The old Visual Volume Pedal that launched the Visual Sound company did just that. It was kind of a terrible volume pedal, but it's interesting looking at their evolution of designs
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 16 Nov 2019 5:27 am
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I think the consensus is YAGNI, ain't going to need it. I suppose you could put a small piece of synthetic steel wool w/double sided tape or something like that at where you think the stop should be.
Reminds me of when i decided i needed a mechanical A pedal half stop
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2790620
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=926856
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 16 Nov 2019 12:39 pm
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| I have a little piece of foam stuffed into the end of my Telonics pedal to add a little extra resistance toward the end of its travel. There is no stop point, the pedal stays put wherever it is if I remove my foot, it just takes a tiny bit more effort to get into its upper reaches. Works for me. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 16 Nov 2019 1:58 pm
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I've been playing on and off since 1970 and I still pucker up when I have to make a strong entrance, like for an intro, and I don't want to be too loud, but I don't want to come in too weak. Sometimes I get it right, and sometimes not.
So I understand what's being proposed and why. Having something that gives me a predetermined volume could become a crutch. But then I've never tried it, so how can I say it wouldn't be a good thing.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 16 Nov 2019 3:40 pm
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| Paul Sutherland wrote: |
| ...I still pucker up when I have to make a strong entrance... |
something tells me you're pretty spot on most of the time Paul.
While probably not necessary for most, the half-stop thingy is an interesting idea.
For the OP, here's a simple idea that you could attach to most any pedal. Could be part of a standard issue pedal rack bracket or a separate item, attached with the foot screws on the bottom. If the little L-shaped slidey part was circular, sort of top hat-shaped like a shoulder washer with a recess underneath for the spring it could spin around so it wouldn't matter what direction it pointed, and would allow more vertical space for height adjustment.
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Jacek Jakubek
From:
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 17 Nov 2019 12:29 am
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Ian, that spring mechanism looks interesting, except I would need it to be in the heel-end of the pedal. I use a Hilton pedal like the one in your picture and it doesn't have much space/height at the heel end, so fitting a device like that (or like the one Ernest Bovine showed) may be harder.
Interesting discussion on the A-pedal feel stop linked by Gene Tani, I have a feeling any such device rigged to a volume pedal might have the same problems.
Think I will just play the way I do for now.
Thanks again to everyone for the ideas. |
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Michael Sawyer
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2019 5:49 am
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I found in attempting to learn how to tastefully use my volume pedal,that basically pedal travel didn't seem to match volume "travel".
In a nutshell, from mute to halfway was basically useless to me.
My stop I installed is a minimum volume set,that's all.
There is a dip switch to change the taper,it helped,but I wont satisfied
A different brand might be better,I've read players who say yes, others say it's in the technique...
Be nice to go to a music store with several brands,so I could demo and see. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 17 Nov 2019 10:13 am
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| hmmm... having a stop in the reverse direction seems completely counter-intuitive to me. You would have to have your foot on the pedal to get to and remain at -0- volume. To me, for something like this to be useful it would need to allow free travel between -0- and whatever baseline volume you set at the stop (that part of the VP travel is definitely not useless to me); pushing beyond that would encounter some slight resistance. Good luck, I hope you figure it out. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 17 Nov 2019 1:26 pm
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For me every new venue that I play at requires a slightly different tone and volume tweek on my amp and minimum volume pedal setting... My volume pedal has a knob on top to adjust the amount of signal that is present when in the "heel down" position. I like to have a small but audible volume level for a smooth fade in/out with out chopping it off abruptly.
I don't see a need for a mid-volume stop or indicator, since it is mostly a dynamic feeling depending on the song and arrangement.
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2019 9:22 am
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I'm used to having my foot volume in a certain position.
If I need more or less volume, I adjust the volume control on my Match Box. 
Erv |
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