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Author Topic:  Playing on stage
Billy Murdoch

 

From:
Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2019 5:29 am    
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I have read somewhere that if You are using backline only(no F.O.H)the sound of Your effects are lost after a few feet from the stage. I know that the sound onstage is somewhat different from what is heard at the back of the house. Is it advisable to increase the intensity of Your reverb/delay?
Billy
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Malcolm McMaster


From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2019 6:16 am    
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Billy, many years back I tried setting up steel at back of hall we were rehearsing in ( amp left on stage) and was amazed how different it sounded sitting back there, I ended up adding lots more top and effect, moving guitar back on stage it sounded like a telecaster on steroids when sitting in front of amp, I ended up somewhere in between, mainly because the stage sound was unpleasant to my ears. Obviously when I was going into PA then I used my original settings, and hoped sound guy would leave it alone, as this was sound I wanted.
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Billy Murdoch

 

From:
Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2019 10:50 am    
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Thanks Malcolm
I am finding that with a brighter amp setting I am getting more pleasing remarks from the hordes of beautiful young ladies who frequent My gig establishments. I will try increasing My effect intensity next week.
Billy
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2019 11:22 am    
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Sound is such a complex subject, I gave up on it. I have my hands full just playing. You will never hear on stage what the audience is hearing 30 or 100 feet away. I just try to get the best stage sound I can and hope for the best. Most of the time my signal is going FOH anyway, so I balance my perception of tone, volume, and effects with keeping the sound guy and the band mates happy.
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Dick Wood


From:
Springtown Texas, USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 5:43 am    
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Billy, at my age, I don't think increasing my intensity will have any effect on my performance.

Fred, you and I think exactly the same.
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Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 6:30 am    
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Billy Murdoch wrote:
I am finding that with a brighter amp setting I am getting more pleasing remarks from the hordes of beautiful young ladies who frequent My gig establishments.

You go, boy! Smile
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George Kimery

 

From:
Limestone, TN, USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 7:35 am     Playing on stage
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Those were the days! I'm 74 now and the "young" ladies are all older than me.
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Jim Pitman

 

From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 11:59 am    
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If I can't mic my amp or send some direct signal to the FOH PA, i make sure my body isn't blocking my amp anyway. Ones' back certainly can absorb a lot of high end.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 12:33 pm    
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Here’s what ruined sound for me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IP31_pwI-uo

I think this guy’s explanation is about as clear as any I’ve ever heard on the subject. It just doesn’t make adjusting stage levels any less complicated. Not to mention there are other factors involved that aren’t covered by the Fletch-Munson effect.

Our instrument is just one of many on a stage full of instruments and voices covering a very wide frequency range at varying dB levels and different “perceived” volume levels, depending on actual proven science and the physical condition of the ears of the various individuals on the stage and in the audience.

Yep. I quit. Just shut up and play yer guitar.
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 2:16 pm    
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If you are concerned about the Steel reaching the back of the room with just your amp, I would say just use delay, and turn your reverb off.
I love reverb, but it makes things sound mushy the farther away from your amp it gets.
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 3:18 pm    
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I find that I often have to use more reverb than I'm comfortable with to have an acceptable reverb sound out in the audience. Most effects, IMHO, fade with distance or "get lost" because the volume of that effect is lower than the (main) instrument sound. And if you crank up the instrument volume, then the effect is right, but the overall sound is too loud. What Jim said (about the amp being aimed at your back) is also true. Many times, I'll initially set my controls with the amp tilted towards me, and then place it flat on the floor when I'm playing so that the sound isn't blocked by my body. Cool
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 3:55 pm    
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If you are using a digital reverb, mess around with the pre-delay control. Adding 50ms of delay before the reverb kicks in will help clarify your initial attack.
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 4:00 pm    
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I am also a huge fan of pre-delay for reverb.
I am amazed so many pedals don't have pre-delay.
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Godfrey Arthur


From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 10:02 pm    
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If you're playing a venue that is larger than your gear, you need FOH!

Sound is a fickle mistress.

You can sit at the back of the venue and listen to your amp, but come showtime, the body heat, rise in room temperature and the clothed bodies will soak up the highs throwing off all your efforts.

And if your stage is lower than their heads, add an extra wall of sound absorption.

Many times when we do FOH, if the venue is long like a hallway and people will be standing so far from the stage, we need to set up additional speaker sets closer to the people in the back of the hall/venue and then "time delay" them using other devices to delay the signal going to the amps so that the sound arrives in time with the speakers closer to the stage, just to show how complex sound production is.

If you're not using a PA and you're concerned about people in the back of the venue hearing you at your best, you will be fraught with a few problems. One will be that in order for the people to hear you as well at the back of the club, you have to overcompensate the tone/EQ of your amp for the sound to reach back that far, which will then make the sound to the people closest to the stage want to wear ear plugs if they are sensitive to loud sounds.

Unless you get a soundsystem raised over the audience's head and a competent sound person, if it matters to some of your friends to hear you well enough, tell them to get there early and sit closer to the stage.

This leaves the back of the room for people who don't need to be hearing you all that well so they can get a word in edgewise to their friends.

Reverb will make your instrument sound further away not unless you use two amps, one dry and one wet for just the reverb only. This way you can balance the dry and wet and not put your signal through reverb but have reverb ALONG WITH THE DRY SIGNAL.

If you have a two channel amp, you can use both channels and patch your reverb to one channel (or use the reverb/vibrato channel for reverb) only, keeping the other dry and then balance the two, making the dry louder so that it will travel further.


What you hear of yourself on stage, is never going to be what the audience hears, and not unless you have FOH assist will your music message get across in an agreeable fashion.

Next plan now in the works for future sound system at venues is mixing the band and sending it WIFI to your smartphone. No more bad seat in the house for audio!

Below is one idea for time delay speakers for large venues.

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Last edited by Godfrey Arthur on 12 Nov 2019 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 12 Nov 2019 6:50 am    
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You can make a recording at home of yourself playing, and play it through your amp at gigs so you can walk around the room and see how the amp/effects sound.
Then record the gig from the back of the room and see how it sounded.
After a few times of this you can get a pretty good idea of what works.


Last edited by Pete Burak on 12 Nov 2019 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bill C. Buntin

 

Post  Posted 12 Nov 2019 7:13 am    
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It is very elusive. I truly never really consider foh just because I’ve never had control of foh. For me, it’s about comfort. If I’m getting tone that I like, I can relax and enjoy playing. Regardless of foh.

How many times have we heard “turn the steel up”? I ignore that I keep playing.

Bill
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Billy Murdoch

 

From:
Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.
Post  Posted 13 Nov 2019 2:03 pm    
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Thanks everyone for the well informed replies. I have a lot to think about.
best regards
Billy
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Larry Hamilton

 

From:
Lewisville, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 13 Nov 2019 6:33 pm    
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I nearly always use two speaker cabs. We nearly always mic everything whether IMO we need to or not. If possible the mic’d cab is directly behind me and the other to one side. The rest is up the sound man. We are lucky we have a darn good Soundman and doesn’t try to over process the overall sound and knows how to mix steel.
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