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Topic: Curley Chalker Lick #2 |
Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2019 2:06 pm |
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How does Curley get so much sustain? I count 8 notes from one picking of the strings. Just how does he do this? It starts at 2:00
https://youtu.be/Z_Smv6uk5W4
Edited to now include the link to the YouTube video. I wondered why I was not getting any response. 
RC |
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2019 5:40 am
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Isn't it just leaving lots of headroom on the volume pedal? It seems like Curly's VP work was always so masterful...
- Slim
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Joe Krumel
From:
Hermitage, Tn.
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Posted 19 Oct 2019 6:40 am
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| Yeah,that ride up the neck is over the top. His Vol.Pedal work always floored me. |
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Peter Leavenworth
From:
Madbury, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2019 7:17 am Curley Chalker lick 2
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Is he playing out of a C6 tuning or did he swap necks?
_________________
2008 Zum D-10, 1996 Mullens PRP D-10, 1974 Emmons D-10, 1976 Emmons D-10, early 70s Emmons GS-10, Milkman Sideman head w/Telonics 15" speaker, 1966 Fender Super Reverb, 1970 Fender Dual Showman head, Wechter/Scheerhorn and Beard Dobros, 1962 Supro lap steels, Gibson 1939 RB-11 banjo, Gibson 1978 RB-250
banjo......and way too much more |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 19 Oct 2019 7:59 am Re: Curley Chalker lick 2
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| Peter Leavenworth wrote: |
| Is he playing out of a C6 tuning or did he swap necks? |
Curly had his C6 neck on the top neck, and E9 on the bottom neck.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2019 12:59 pm
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| Slim Heilpern wrote: |
Isn't it just leaving lots of headroom on the volume pedal? It seems like Curly's VP work was always so masterful...
- Slim |
That was my first thought too, but that would really require a lot of power.
If we have any players on the forum that can get that kind of sustain, maybe they'll be so kind as to tell us how it's done.
RC |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2019 9:38 am
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Still looking for ideas on how Curley got this sustain. One thing I'm sure of, it wasn't a magic impedance matching box, or an amp simulator, etc... because I don't think those thing were around at that time. Must have been his technique.
Maybe someone can tab this, and then show us how to do it with one picking of the strings. I was not really a big Curley fan until I saw this. I knew he was a super C6 speed picker, but I'm not into that. When I saw this it blew me away. This has to be one of my all time favorite steel guitar breaks.
RC |
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2019 9:59 am
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| Rick Campbell wrote: |
| Slim Heilpern wrote: |
Isn't it just leaving lots of headroom on the volume pedal? It seems like Curly's VP work was always so masterful...
- Slim |
That was my first thought too, but that would really require a lot of power.
...
RC |
I'm not sure what you mean by "a lot of power". It would only require that your amp is turned up enough, your VP has reasonably high output, and you have the technique to pull it off. Curly's VP work in general suggests that he'd spent a lot of time perfecting his right foot technique -- I don't hear that level of control from most players...
- Slim
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2019 11:11 am
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| Slim Heilpern wrote: |
| Rick Campbell wrote: |
| Slim Heilpern wrote: |
Isn't it just leaving lots of headroom on the volume pedal? It seems like Curly's VP work was always so masterful...
- Slim |
That was my first thought too, but that would really require a lot of power.
...
RC |
I'm not sure what you mean by "a lot of power". It would only require that your amp is turned up enough, your VP has reasonably high output, and you have the technique to pull it off. Curly's VP work in general suggests that he'd spent a lot of time perfecting his right foot technique -- I don't hear that level of control from most players...
- Slim |
We're talking about the same thing. By, "power" I meant reserve volume. It seems that to have enough volume in reserve, you would really have to just barely crack it under normal playing conditions. I agree 100% that Curley had his technique to a master level for sure. I know a few players that could probably pull this off. It would be fun to watch them work it out.
RC |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2019 4:59 pm
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Must be a mystery. I'm not seeing a lot of people offering to explain this one. I wish I could do it with that precision... actually, I'd be happy if I could just stagger through it.
RC |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2019 7:22 pm
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Well, I think folks have hit on it and you understand it, but maybe some more detail would be helpful for the uninitiated.
Curly had his amp cranked very high... such that what was coming out of his amp was 'normal playing volume' with his volume pedal sitting at only, say 40% of the way on (or less). This is key, because there's no way to pull this effect off without LOTS of headroom on the pedal. Many players probably don't run their rig with quite that much headroom on the pedal.
Anyway, he picks with authority to get those strings ringing with the pedal at maybe 40%, and as the notes start to naturally decay over the next few seconds, he steps on the volume pedal very slowly and evenly. The trick is to move the pedal at the same rate that the strings are naturally decaying. This gives the impression of constant sustain. Obviously, the strings are putting out less energy as the lick progresses, but he's making up for that by stepping on the volume pedal at exactly the correct rate. By the end of the lick, he finally has the pedal pushed all the way down.
There's no other gizmos or technique he's doing to get that impression of infinite sustain, it's just heavy usage of a volume pedal with gobs headroom on it.
If you try this and are running out of pedal before finishing the lick, it's time turn up the amp which forces you to start the pedal at a lower spot, say, only 30% of the way down (or less), to be at normal playing volume. Rinse and repeat this adjustment until you find the starting position that gives you just enough pedal to finish the lick. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2019 7:50 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
Well, I think folks have hit on it and you understand it, but maybe some more detail would be helpful for the uninitiated.
Curly had his amp cranked very high... such that what was coming out of his amp was 'normal playing volume' with his volume pedal sitting at only, say 40% of the way on. This is key, because there's no way to pull this effect off without LOTS of headroom on the pedal. Many players probably don't run their rig with quite that much headroom on the pedal...
Anyway, he starts playing his run with the pedal at maybe 40%, and as the notes start to naturally decay over the next few seconds, he steps on the volume pedal very slowly and evenly. The trick is to move the pedal at the same rate that the strings are naturally decaying. This gives the impression of constant sustain. Obviously, the strings are putting out less energy as the lick progresses, but he's making up for that by stepping on the volume pedal at exactly the correct rate. By the end of the lick, he finally has the pedal pushed all the way down.
His pedal work is so smooth and even that the listener can't tell how the magician is doing his trick. |
Thanks for the detailed explanation. That's what I thought too. He must have had a quite rig. I can see electrical hum overpowering the string sound in a lot of situations. I agree with you 100% about the magic involved. I was thinking, this was live TV without overdubs. Also, Jimmy Capps playing such tasteful licks on the fills. Great music.
RC |
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 27 Oct 2019 3:22 am
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| That is great volume pedal work. I can't believe how he gets back to his starting point on the pedal so quickly and accurately before picking with his right hand at the end of the long phrase, too. |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2019 8:16 am
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I'm sure he is only using a fraction of the volume that his amp is set for his baseline playing so he can utilize the VP. Next he is attacking the strings with a commanding stroke to get maximum duration of the notes. Lastly his guitar has good natural sustain. In the video I couldn't tell what kind of pickups he had, but humbuckers would be wise choice!
_________________
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
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Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2019 9:36 am
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| One factor is that there are no exploding drums to contend with so you can hear all the little nice notes and harmonics coming from the steel. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2019 6:57 pm
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| Greg Lambert wrote: |
| One factor is that there are no exploding drums to contend with so you can hear all the little nice notes and harmonics coming from the steel. |
I like that answer. I dont know why but drum playing has changed too. I'm suspicious that line dancing might have contributed to this.
RC |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 28 Oct 2019 8:22 am
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| Rick Campbell wrote: |
Must be a mystery. I'm not seeing a lot of people offering to explain this one. I wish I could do it with that precision... actually, I'd be happy if I could just stagger through it.
RC |
Rick, really...there's no mystery or magic here. All you have to do is turn the amp up and employ the basic volume pedal technique for sustaining a note or chord. The "sustain" you hear in this particular phrase isn't that long (it's under five seconds, actually). But he's playing eight different intervals in that time, and that makes it seem longer than it really is.
I sometimes get compliments on my sustain and technique, but most of my "secret" is simply turning the amp up. I normally play with an amp that's rated @ 240 watts, and I always have both the pre and master volumes set wide open, even when I play at low volume in the house. That gives me that "forever sustain" that some players think you need some magic dingus to get.
p.s. Curly was a giant among players, easily one of my all-time favorites!  |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2019 4:41 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Rick Campbell wrote: |
Must be a mystery. I'm not seeing a lot of people offering to explain this one. I wish I could do it with that precision... actually, I'd be happy if I could just stagger through it.
RC |
Rick, really...there's no mystery or magic here. All you have to do is turn the amp up and employ the basic volume pedal technique for sustaining a note or chord. The "sustain" you hear in this particular phrase isn't that long (it's under five seconds, actually). But he's playing eight different intervals in that time, and that makes it seem longer than it really is.
I sometimes get compliments on my sustain and technique, but most of my "secret" is simply turning the amp up. I normally play with an amp that's rated @ 240 watts, and I always have both the pre and master volumes set wide open, even when I play at low volume in the house. That gives me that "forever sustain" that some players think you need some magic dingus to get.
p.s. Curly was a giant among players, easily one of my all-time favorites! |
That makes total sense and it sounds simple enough. I realize that a lot of experience is involved in playing it at the expert level that some of you can, very few of you I think. Thanks for the response!
RC |
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Dan Behringer
From:
Jerseyville, Illinois
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Jeremiah Wade
From:
Bladenboro, NC
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Posted 3 Nov 2019 6:29 am
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Another great example of perfect volume pedal usage! Also check out Paul Franklin’ s solo on “If you’re gonna do me wrong, do it right†with Dawn Sears and the Time Jumpers. There are at least three licks in that solo that demonstrate seemingly infinite sustain. Adding bar pressure gradually also helps the notes sustain. Volume pedal technique should be a muscle memory reflex. Paul has a tab of that solo on his blog. I cannot recommend the Paul Franklin Method highly enough. He covers Every aspect of steel playing completely!
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I'd rather be pickin' |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 3 Nov 2019 10:58 am
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As long as Curly is being discussed, it seems appropriate to mention that I still have about 150 copies of the DVD of him in concert sitting in my garage.
Let me know if you want one.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Jacek Jakubek
From:
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 12 Nov 2019 8:44 pm
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Hey Mike, I want the DVD. Please check your private messages.
I'm a bit worried that after watching his amazing C6th playing on the DVD, I will want to get a guitar with a 6th neck. |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 12 Nov 2019 9:18 pm
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Curly's technique was masterful. He like all of the steel players of that time played on the top of the volume pedal leaving tons of headroom for those long lasting notes. I played all three of Curly's MSAs at one time or another and they were all great. Nashville didn't like them because it didn't say Sho-Bud or Emmons on the front.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Jacek Jakubek
From:
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 12 Nov 2019 11:05 pm
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besides the volume pedal thing, looking at his bar hand technique in the video, looks like he is barely pressing the bar and almost just floating it over the strings, with no damping at all behind the bar, with the fingers lifted completely behind the bar. And, lots of vibrato, all the time. If you look close, he's even doing the vibrato nicely during the bar slant!
I wonder what kind of bar he and others used back then, no super smooth BJS bars probably. If the bar was a bit rough, the constant vibrato might be adding sustain from the constant friction...kind of like Jimi Hendrix on "Foxey Lady." Daniel Lanois talked about doing this on his steel on a video on YouTube.
I have an opportunity to experiment with this kind of vibrato-sustain as I have some rough stainless steel bars that I custom made and was unsuccessful in sanding/polishing right. Should be fun with some overdrive and let the bar scrape over the strings...screaming Joe Walsh Rocky Mountain Way style playing.
I forgot to add that the singers singing harmony sound just as beautiful, just as amazing as the steel playing. I bet if any steel player who doesn't know how to sing a harmony part like that would take the time to learn it, it would benefit the steel playing too. Where's that harmony singing instructional material I bought a while back but never listened to? now I have to find it. All you really need: Harmony vocals, acoustic, steel. |
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... Maybe PF could chime in here, but Curley may have been adding bar pressure as he went up the neck to increase sustain.