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Topic: Modern vs vintage sound |
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 7:49 pm |
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Johnny, what's better or best is all just opinions, personal tastes based largely on what a listener has been exposed to and appreciates. The variety of sounds, the playing styles and tones of popular players that I brought up, is, I think, germane to the discussion. I feel it's also undeniable, but I still welcome other opinions. I think that much of the "sameness" these days is owed to the producers and engineers, for they control what ultimately gets recorded. In the old days, the player played his sound and style, and the engineers and producers just recorded what was done. Their job was more to capture, not to mold and manipulate. There was not nearly as much desire to "fit everything into the mix" with one common tone. These days, things are muted, smoothed, and edited far more, there's no denying that. The result may be more polished and perfect, but it's done with a definite loss of personality, style, and variety.
While I can certainly appreciate what's being done today, I still long for the variety of sounds and styles of times past that is no more...the days when you could hear Emmons, Charleton, Weldon, Hal, Brumley, Stu, Sonny, Chalker, Lloyd, Pete, Mooney and Crawford...all in just a few hours on the same radio station, playing stuff that was all on the charts.  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 10:50 pm
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Donny's brought up another classical parallel. When I was at school you could tell the nationality of a symphony orchestra without reading the record label - English, French, Russian, American, Austrian, Czech, East or West German. Now they have become globalised and all sound the same.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Steve Sycamore
From:
Sweden
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Posted 15 Oct 2019 12:58 am
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
| The very first pedal steel sound that hooked me and forced me to start playing was made by an Emmons guitar played by Buddy Cage. |
This is off-topic, but I was fortunate enough to see The New Riders in a small town pub. Buddy Cage was just incredible, playing super hot country licks with rock star bravado and attitude. Maybe that's one thing the current music scene could use now: more rock feeling (with a roots base). |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 15 Oct 2019 2:17 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| Donny's brought up another classical parallel. When I was at school you could tell the nationality of a symphony orchestra without reading the record label - English, French, Russian, American, Austrian, Czech, East or West German. Now they have become globalised and all sound the same. |
Same went for traditional stringband music here in the states. On early recordings, it's pretty easy to differentiate a north Georgia band from a Mississippi band from a Tennessee band etc., based not only on the style of the band itself but the styles of individual players. Fiddling and banjo playing had distinctive regional sounds.
But those very recordings, along with radio (and better transportation) exposed people in all parts of the country to a number of styles that they hadn't heard before. As musicians started incorporating these new influences into their own sound (whether intentionally or not), regional styles started to become less distinct, and it eventually evolved into the homogenized country sound we hear today.
Dave |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 15 Oct 2019 7:05 am
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| Rich Peterson wrote: |
| Part of the "vintage sound" on recordings from the 50s and 60s comes from the recording technology and techniques of the time. And a lot of the sound that you are getting right now comes from your hands. Even how close you are sitting to the steel can affect your tone by changing the angle that your picks strike the strings. |
I agree with Rich's comment above, as well as Johnny's original premise.
Recording in the 60's was pretty much 4-track to 2" tape. Oftentimes 2-track or 3-track, depending on the studio. Few if any overdubs, very little separation for the most part. Everybody recording at once. Tube everything... boards, compressors, reverbs, microphones, et al.
Everything matters.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 16 Oct 2019 6:11 pm
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I really wasn't referring to recorded sound in my original post. I was fortunate to be raised in Nashville before the sounds of the 60s started changing. I got to hear Hal, Weldon, Lloyd, Pete as well as Buddy E. and Buddy C. straight out of their amps.
On another note my son, Ryan brought his 76 PP over and I have to say it is one of those exceptional sounding guitars. Heads above either of the ones I owned. I spent lots of time in Buddy's basement listening to him play and also playing the Blade myself. This 76 is right up there.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 2:57 pm
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I don’t know nothing for sure but I’m more inclined too believe it’s the
Indian not the arrow!
John Huey made his Modern Zum tone one of the best in live shows an records music.
I’m sure Johnnys Sho Bud will inspire him too play and will find new untapped inspiration from the tone of this Bud.
Know in Johnny’s case it’s the Indian an the Arrow a perfect combination!
Last edited by Johnie King on 17 Oct 2019 6:43 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 3:46 pm
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| Johnie King wrote: |
I don’t know nothing for sure but I’m more inclined too believe it’s the
Indian not the arrow!
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When this Indian uses different arrows I hear the difference. My sound is totally different on my MSA than on my Bud. But others might not hear that. Players that have good tone in their hands will sound good on any guitar but believe me they know and hear the difference.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 7:09 pm
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| Johnie King wrote: |
I don’t know nothing for sure but I’m more inclined too believe it’s the
Indian not the arrow!
John Huey made his Modern Zum tone one of the best in live shows an records music.
I’m sure Johnnys Sho Bud will inspire him too play and will find new untapped inspiration from the tone of this Bud.
Know in Johnny’s case it’s the Indian an the Arrow a perfect combination! |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 11:10 pm
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I love the sound of both of my rigs. I'm really only saying that there us a definite difference between the modern sound and the vintage. Not at all suggesting one is better than the other. As Donny said, it really comes down to opinion and personal preference. I have many steel players that I love to listen to, they all sound different but all good.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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chuck abend
From:
Kansas City,Mo.64155 U.S.A.
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Posted 18 Oct 2019 11:46 am steel guitar tone
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The best Tone I ever had is the Thomas D10 cowboy model with the Alumatone pickups.
The pickups checkout 5K ea which surprised me.I don't
understand the internal design to achive the clear tone that they get.See the Thomas post in Pedal steel page 2.I've owned Zum MCI CARTER Encore but the Thomas outshines them all.It's the Cadillac of steel Guitars.High quality construction tone,playability. Chuck Abend
Last edited by chuck abend on 18 Oct 2019 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 18 Oct 2019 12:12 pm Re: steel guitar tone
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| chuck abend wrote: |
| The best Tone I ever had ic the Thomas D10 cowboy model with the Alumatine pickups. |
Don't bother measuring Alumitone PUs, as they are "current loops with step-up transformers" and all you can measure is the step-up trafo. Pretty linear, strong and "HiFi"-like performance over the audible frequency range. Suits all steels they can fit into. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2019 2:05 am
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When I first got my Legend, I tinkered with about 4 or 5 pups, and wondered why I couldn't replicate the old Bud sound. I posted about it, and a lot of you fellas comments and old hand experience led me to the "nothing sounds like a Bud but a Bud" conclusion.
That being said, I found, after a lot of trial and error, that an Alumitone in the Legend, played through my Twin with K-120s, gives me a really killer, more classic than modern tone, This is what I'm going with, hoping to develop my own tone as I go - it's simply great tone, even though it's more classic Chalker sounding than classic Charleton. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 19 Oct 2019 2:55 am
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I have an Alumitone in my Excel, and it sounds great. Still not the classic Sho Bud sound, but like Bobby said, it sounds more classic than modern. It has some of the same bite the old Buds have.
Dave |
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