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Topic: How Can I Get This Amp Sound? |
Kenneth Kotsay
From:
Davie/Ft Lauderdale, Florida
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 7:45 am |
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The following Youtube video shows an unknown steel player using an older Fender Amp which could be a twin, he's mic-ing it also
How on earth is he getting this sweet tone & sound?
I know, it could be the pickup, the steel, the strings, the bar, the amp settings etc
Can it be duplicated using Peavey amps?
or does it depend on,____________?
No matter what I do with the various amps & steels I own, I can never get that sound like he does no matter how I try to adjust my amps settings.
I Need desperate help...S.O.S.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up6VtyfMV-s
Ken |
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Patrick Fleming
From:
South Dakota, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 8:03 am
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| I would second this question. I am playing a Fender (by sho-bud) through a non master twin reverb and I can't get it to sound like that vibrolux reverb. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 8:48 am
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| Quote: |
No matter what I do with the various amps & steels I own, I can never get that sound like he does no matter how I try to adjust my amps settings.
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You would have to re-create all the same conditions under which the original youtube clip was made. Your guitar ,but everything else exactly the same - same mic, same old Fender amp, etc.. Then listen to it through your computer... Let me know how it works out for you...  |
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Tal Herbsman
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 10:12 am
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looking at the YT description I see this:
Carter Starter E9 pedal steel guitar
1975 Fender Vibrolux Reverb (black face mod)
Flea U47 microphone
Classic API VP26 mic pre
Apogee conversion |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 10:47 am
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So much for the frequently argued points of view that
1. Carter Starters uniformly suck
2. Vibrolux Reverbs (with their 10" speakers) are not appropriate pedal steel amps
We don't know for sure what kind of pickup was on the guitar. But I played different Carter Starters several times, and they sounded to me like the pickup was wound a bit lower than typical fat-wound modern pedal steel pickups. I didn't measure them, though, so that's pure conjecture. In fact, we can only conjecture what's actually going on here.
But that's what this sounds like to me - a somewhat lighter-than-normal pickup wind into an old Fender amp like a Vibrolux. Might want to probe the player to find out even more detail.
I personally like the way this sounds. I imagine there are others who may not prefer this type of sound. What make the world go round. |
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Chris Willingham
From:
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 11:00 am
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YT description says his name is Dan Boner. Why not comment on the vid and ask?
_________________
Fiddle, banjo and steel for Tennessee Jet, Blaine Bailey
2021 MSA Legend XL Signature S10 5X6 brown burst
Beard Josh Swift Sig, the purple one
Lap King Rodeo
p2p Bad Dawg 1x12, Quilter TT12 and a bunch of fiddles |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 11:08 am
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| So much for the frequently argued points of view that Vibrolux Reverbs (with their 10" speakers) are not appropriate pedal steel amps |
My dripedge Vibrolux Reverb is one of my favorite amps for steel guitar. Even with other amps, I go back and forth between using a JBL 15 or a pair of alnico Weber 10s. Sometimes I use the two together. There's something about the sound of the two ten inch speakers that sparkles, yet is very smooth through the midrange and still gets good bass.
Dave |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 2:58 pm
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The "unknown steel player" is a music director at ETSU: https://www.etsu.edu/cas/das/bluegrass/about-us/Faculty/Daniel-Boner.html. He's a very musical guy. While handily refuting the arguments Dave M mentioned, he simultaneously helps bolster the ubiquitous argument that "tone is in the hands"
Forumite Tony Dingus also teaches at ETSU, including pedal steel. There was a discussion a while back after the TSGA show about the US Navy Country Current band, the steel player Henry Johns was a student of Tony's at ETSU. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 3:01 pm
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
So much for the frequently argued points of view that
1. Carter Starters uniformly suck
2. Vibrolux Reverbs (with their 10" speakers) are not appropriate pedal steel amps
We don't know for sure what kind of pickup was on the guitar. But I played different Carter Starters several times, and they sounded to me like the pickup was wound a bit lower than typical fat-wound modern pedal steel pickups. I didn't measure them, though, so that's pure conjecture. In fact, we can only conjecture what's actually going on here.
But that's what this sounds like to me - a somewhat lighter-than-normal pickup wind into an old Fender amp like a Vibrolux. Might want to probe the player to find out even more detail.
I personally like the way this sounds. I imagine there are others who may not prefer this type of sound. What make the world go round. |
Dave my friend, they DO uniformly suck!.. That being said, the couple I have had through here always sounded very good, ,, they were just made crappy is all, with the levers being the weakest point.. They have good sustain, a kind of Sho bud sound, and with new strings like the guy in the video has I'll bet, they have good bite, and clarity.. The pickups on them are certainly "old school"..
John Fabian told me my best bet for the sound I wanted out of the carter I had made was to have them put a starter pickup in it. I told him a I wanted an old style Bud/Fender sound. I declined to try the Starter pickup and went with a Truetone coil tap, but after having a couple starters through here for repairs and set ups I found out why he told me to use the starter pickup.. Its kind of a throwback, lightly wound, with a nice traditional sound.
That guy in the video sounds really nice. Of course he is a very good player with good hands and a good amp... The piece he played would sound just as good with any other decent steel.. Carter Starter is like a Maverick or Emmons/ZB/GFI/ Zum/ or any other student model steel... A cheap pedal steel with a perfectly good sound when played by a good player. I heard some recordings done on a Maverick that were hair raising they were so good, but as we know, no one plays a Maverick seriously.. As with any other instrument, cheap price doesn't mean bad sound... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 3:14 pm
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| Ian Worley wrote: |
The "unknown steel player" is a music director at ETSU: https://www.etsu.edu/cas/das/bluegrass/about-us/Faculty/Daniel-Boner.html. He's a very musical guy. While handily refuting the arguments Dave M mentioned, he simultaneously helps bolster the ubiquitous argument that "tone is in the hands"
Forumite Tony Dingus also teaches at ETSU, including pedal steel. There was a discussion a while back after the TSGA show about the US Navy Country Current band, the steel player Henry Johns was a student of Tony's at ETSU. |
My son did his undergrad work at ETSU and minored in Appalachian Studies. He played in their old time band and worked in the music archive (pretty impressive collection). ETSU has a very good program going on.
Dave |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 4:10 pm
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| Quote: |
...How on earth is he getting this sweet tone & sound?
I know, it could be the pickup, the steel, the strings, the bar, the amp settings etc
Can it be duplicated using Peavey amps?
or does it depend on,____________? |
You can most certainly get that sound on a Peavey...or a Fender, or most any good amp with at least 40 or 50 watts and a mid control. Start by turning the bass up to at least 6 or 7, turning the mids way down, and then setting the treble between 2 1/2 and 3 1/2. Add just a touch of verb, and then pick around the 24th fret.
If all that doesn't get you very close, then it's probably your technique that needs just a little refining. Keep at it, and remember that the guitar and everything else in the signal chain just needs the proper input to give the desired output.  |
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Chris Grigsby
From:
Boulder, CO
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 5:55 pm
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I would also add that a FLEA U47 through a CAPI VP26 preamp is a VERY colored signal chain. It is also hard to say if the signal was further processed in the DAW, e.g. compression, reverb, eq, etc...in other words, you are hearing more than just the guitar and amp.
Best,
Chris
_________________
Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet. |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 6:57 pm
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| Sounds to me like the mids are almost not present,the bass is up and the bright switch is down.Speaker and mic type(and mic placement) might play a part,but the bit about an underwound pickup makes good sense too-the first part of the song had kind of a Fifties Strat vibe going.Not to mention some impeccable technique! |
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John Palumbo
From:
Lansdale, PA.
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 7:23 pm
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I think a lot of it is his volume pedal technique. He works it like a compressor. Very nice. Also, check out that mic!
The amp and guitar tone doesn't sound all that unusual to me. The real treat is his technique.
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-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 11 Oct 2019 9:24 am
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| Lots of excellent observations here. That being said, my personal experience is that no solid state amp can replicate the exquisite sound of a decent Fender BF or SF reverb amp loaded with JBL speakers. Twin Reverb, Pro Reverb, Super Reverb, Vibrolux, Vibroverb, Vibrosonic, they all have it, but the common Jensen, Eminence, Celestion, etc. speakers are not so friendly to most pedal steel guitarists, thus most steel players are unaware of the tonal splendor so near at hand. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2019 9:54 am
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Good point, Dave. The midrange scoop of JBL speakers really brings out the traditional pedal steel tone. Lloyd Green's Twin Reverb has a 15" JBL. The original Webb 6-14E amps came equipped with a 15" JBL.
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-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2019 9:56 am
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Tube amp. Tube microphone. Good picking and volume pedal technique. Pretty classic demonstration of vacuum tubes at work here.
B |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 11 Oct 2019 9:59 am
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Well I definitely got a steely dan on that, Dan Boner! 
I wouldn't discount the Apogee conversion adding tone.
And Dan's "Josie raw flame, live wire" fingerings!
Got to give it up to guys who make a psg sing like this!
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Kenneth Kotsay
From:
Davie/Ft Lauderdale, Florida
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Posted 11 Oct 2019 1:02 pm
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GOT IT, Almost not exact but close, here's how.
To begin with, I want to thank all you guys for offering help on my quest in trying to duplicate the sound of Dan Borner's song & amp sound.
MSA D-10 LEGEND (New 2019)
Alumintone PU (New 2019)
Telonics V.P. (New FP-100)
Roland Cube 80XL COSM AMP
I started off by using Donny Hinson amp settings.
ROLAND CUBE AMP:
Settings:
BASE 10
MIDS 0
TREBLE 11 (started off at 7)
PRESENCE 7
DELAY OFF
REVERB 9 (started off at 7)
I've been at it for about 2 hours, when I had no reverb it sounded flat, so I increase the reverb which helped a lot. Treble was almost off, so I kept on increasing it's output till the sound improved. The best that I can describe what stands out on Dan's sound is sort of like a "ZING" sound with reverb and it seems to me with a little Delay, but I haven't use Delay yet.
Now the big question I have is how will I be able to produce the same sound from the following amps:
PEAVEY 1000
PEAVEY 112
PEAVEY Profex II & Mackie Power Amp FR Series, M14001
PEAVEY Transtubefex & Peavey DPC 1000 power amp.
Peavey BW 12 Twin Cabs.
Finally, I have to wait till my wife gets home from work so she can take a listen to Dan's song and my playing of the same song to get an opinion on how both songs sound.
MR Grafe, your opinion is ringing in my ears, but are you talking about the 1960's Twin Reverb, or the newer Twins that are on the market today, you also suggested a JBL speaker.
KEN |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 11 Oct 2019 1:19 pm
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I know Dan,
He's a professor in the East TN State Univ music program. One heck of a multi-instrumentalist. Did not know he played any PSG.
I know him primarily as a Prof. in their bluegrass related program.
h
oops - I see that Ian identified Dan. I can only add that he also builds custom mic preamps and is a heck of a nice guy. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 1:35 pm
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KEN,
Any of the true tube circuits from Fender have it, all the BF and SF circuits, and of the newer amps I really like the Deluxe Reverb Reissue with a JBL D120f or K120. The reissued '64 Vibroverb, Twin Reverb, '65 Super Reverb, etc. are not the same as their source amps but they still have some usable mojo, but ALL of them fall short as steel amps IMHO until you connect them to a proper JBL driver.
I also played a festival show once through a mic'ed Blues Junior pumped up through monitors and mains and it also sounded great. |
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Bob Snelgrove
From:
san jose, ca
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Posted 16 Oct 2019 7:26 am
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| Sounds kinda dark and flat to me. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2019 2:52 am
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I have heard this question time and time again, and it (to me) boils down this this: You can spend a lot of $$ with a solid state amp, and a ton of gizmos trying to replicate classic Fender tube amp tone. Or, you can just get an older Fender, load the cabs w/some JBLs and be done with it - one cord to the vol ped, and one to the amp and bam! there it is. I went through this in the 80s with guys who were constantly trying to get Stratocaster tone out of everything but Stratocasters. Some didn't want to lay out the $$, and some found them harder to play (which they are if you are doing it right), but the answer was always the same - get a Strat.
Borrowing, or somehow otherwise test driving an old fender should answer all your questions. |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 6 Nov 2019 6:16 am
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Technique ! Buddy Emmons used several different types of guitars and amps throughout his career, amazingly enough he still had that รขโฌลBuddy Emmonsรขโฌย sound ....
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D.S. Rigsby |
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