| Author |
Topic: New Fender Tone Master Twin Reverbs....only 33lbs! |
Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 25 Jan 2021 1:17 am |
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I would like to know how many people have actually played these in a live situation? I’m actually very curious. I work at a music store and we got the deluxe and the twin and I heard someone A/B it with the re-issue across the room. I knew right away which one was which. BUt both sounded great. And if I had put an actual vintage hand wired one next to it I think I would have been able to tell the difference.
But it is a really good sounding amp at the volumes that I heard at. My issue with solid State amplifiers is always when I get it into an actual playing situation. Sometimes solid-state will sound totally fine when playing at bedroom levels or with a stereo but when I get it inside of a band with real live musicians and a real live rhythm section they just never remotely hold up especially in the mid range. This amplifier line has not been out long and it’s gotten wonderful reviews but I’m really curious to how many people have actually jammed with them in real life situations much? I’m glad everyone loves it and it seems like a super cool series of amplifiers no matter what. Even if I doubt it will be for me in the long run. |
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Rick Heins
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 25 Jan 2021 6:25 pm
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| Josh Yenne wrote: |
I would like to know how many people have actually played these in a live situation? I’m actually very curious. I work at a music store and we got the deluxe and the twin and I heard someone A/B it with the re-issue across the room. I knew right away which one was which. BUt both sounded great. And if I had put an actual vintage hand wired one next to it I think I would have been able to tell the difference.
But it is a really good sounding amp at the volumes that I heard at. My issue with solid State amplifiers is always when I get it into an actual playing situation. Sometimes solid-state will sound totally fine when playing at bedroom levels or with a stereo but when I get it inside of a band with real live musicians and a real live rhythm section they just never remotely hold up especially in the mid range. This amplifier line has not been out long and it’s gotten wonderful reviews but I’m really curious to how many people have actually jammed with them in real life situations much? I’m glad everyone loves it and it seems like a super cool series of amplifiers no matter what. Even if I doubt it will be for me in the long run. |
Josh,
If it's any help, we designed the amp to have twice the power (200W) of a standard Twin because Class D needs enough headroom to reach the correct volume of the tube amp. I have used this amp with my band many times at practice and at rehearsal before COVID and I always heard myself and cut in the mix. Hopefully others will chime in, as I might be slightly biased, but I have been very happy in a band context. 
_________________
Sr Product Manager - Fender Amplifiers |
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 25 Jan 2021 7:32 pm
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| Rick Heins wrote: |
| Josh Yenne wrote: |
I would like to know how many people have actually played these in a live situation? I’m actually very curious. I work at a music store and we got the deluxe and the twin and I heard someone A/B it with the re-issue across the room. I knew right away which one was which. BUt both sounded great. And if I had put an actual vintage hand wired one next to it I think I would have been able to tell the difference.
But it is a really good sounding amp at the volumes that I heard at. My issue with solid State amplifiers is always when I get it into an actual playing situation. Sometimes solid-state will sound totally fine when playing at bedroom levels or with a stereo but when I get it inside of a band with real live musicians and a real live rhythm section they just never remotely hold up especially in the mid range. This amplifier line has not been out long and it’s gotten wonderful reviews but I’m really curious to how many people have actually jammed with them in real life situations much? I’m glad everyone loves it and it seems like a super cool series of amplifiers no matter what. Even if I doubt it will be for me in the long run. |
Josh,
If it's any help, we designed the amp to have twice the power (200W) of a standard Twin because Class D needs enough headroom to reach the correct volume of the tube amp. I have used this amp with my band many times at practice and at rehearsal before COVID and I always heard myself and cut in the mix. Hopefully others will chime in, as I might be slightly biased, but I have been very happy in a band context. |
Thats great man.. do you work with Fender?
Its funny cause with guitar at least I don't want more power thats for sure... even a deluxe is usually way more power in an indoor jam than i'd want for guitar... I think the natural tube compression when a tube amp gets pushed is where the magic happens in the mid range (and the hair on the high end keeps the ice pick out) Its not that i dont think SS cuts through the mix... its how it cuts through that usually turns me off.
For steel I know a lot want uber clean.. but again... I dont like that even with steel... less compression for sure but some hair....
Like I said the one I heard at the store sounded pretty damn good in the dead air of a music store.. I'd love to try one out in a real situation for sure... I would be shocked if I preferred it to a real tube amp (as even in the store I preferred the reissue tube deluxe better at low volumes and i've never head a reissue that I like better than my real vintage fender amps) but I'm always stoked to try new gear!
Especially some that has these great reviews and did sound really good in the store.
I have the feeling that for SS guys this thing has some of that tube vibe that is going to really move the needle for them... i generally abhor SS tone for any sort of pedal steel or guitar tone (i do love it for Bass though.. and obviously acoustic guitar tends to behave better with SS)
Whether I like it or not seems like Fender has a good product! and the idea of, at least on the front, matching the traditional fender controls is brilliant.. that is part of the disaster of things like the "cyber twin" etc with just WAY too many things going on...
The back panel of these has lots of options... granted I've never liked a "variable power" amp... I think its cause if the top power of an amp is 22w it needs a transformer to deal with that.. when you "cut the power" down to less than a watt it never feels right to me... and the one I heard in the store definitely did NOT sound like a Deluxe turned to 8 when the "power" was turned down.. it had the same sort of sound (and i'd bet feel) of any other variable power amp i've heard.
I know lots of steel players (I have literally never met a guitar player that likes one for stage use) like the XLR out so thats great for a lot of folks! (I think the cab and the speakers has SO much to do with the sound.
I am not bad mouthing it at all and I hope it doesn't come out like it.. it seems like one of the best products Fender has come out with in a while amp wise. I really look forward to playing around with one for an extended period for sure! |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2021 9:00 pm
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| I bought one for steel and liked it so much I bought one for guitar. True, it's not a tube amp but it's close enough for me. |
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Rick Heins
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 26 Jan 2021 8:51 am
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| Josh Yenne wrote: |
| Rick Heins wrote: |
| Josh Yenne wrote: |
I would like to know how many people have actually played these in a live situation? I’m actually very curious. I work at a music store and we got the deluxe and the twin and I heard someone A/B it with the re-issue across the room. I knew right away which one was which. BUt both sounded great. And if I had put an actual vintage hand wired one next to it I think I would have been able to tell the difference.
But it is a really good sounding amp at the volumes that I heard at. My issue with solid State amplifiers is always when I get it into an actual playing situation. Sometimes solid-state will sound totally fine when playing at bedroom levels or with a stereo but when I get it inside of a band with real live musicians and a real live rhythm section they just never remotely hold up especially in the mid range. This amplifier line has not been out long and it’s gotten wonderful reviews but I’m really curious to how many people have actually jammed with them in real life situations much? I’m glad everyone loves it and it seems like a super cool series of amplifiers no matter what. Even if I doubt it will be for me in the long run. |
Josh,
If it's any help, we designed the amp to have twice the power (200W) of a standard Twin because Class D needs enough headroom to reach the correct volume of the tube amp. I have used this amp with my band many times at practice and at rehearsal before COVID and I always heard myself and cut in the mix. Hopefully others will chime in, as I might be slightly biased, but I have been very happy in a band context. |
Thats great man.. do you work with Fender?
Its funny cause with guitar at least I don't want more power thats for sure... even a deluxe is usually way more power in an indoor jam than i'd want for guitar... I think the natural tube compression when a tube amp gets pushed is where the magic happens in the mid range (and the hair on the high end keeps the ice pick out) Its not that i dont think SS cuts through the mix... its how it cuts through that usually turns me off.
For steel I know a lot want uber clean.. but again... I dont like that even with steel... less compression for sure but some hair....
Like I said the one I heard at the store sounded pretty damn good in the dead air of a music store.. I'd love to try one out in a real situation for sure... I would be shocked if I preferred it to a real tube amp (as even in the store I preferred the reissue tube deluxe better at low volumes and i've never head a reissue that I like better than my real vintage fender amps) but I'm always stoked to try new gear!
Especially some that has these great reviews and did sound really good in the store.
I have the feeling that for SS guys this thing has some of that tube vibe that is going to really move the needle for them... i generally abhor SS tone for any sort of pedal steel or guitar tone (i do love it for Bass though.. and obviously acoustic guitar tends to behave better with SS)
Whether I like it or not seems like Fender has a good product! and the idea of, at least on the front, matching the traditional fender controls is brilliant.. that is part of the disaster of things like the "cyber twin" etc with just WAY too many things going on...
The back panel of these has lots of options... granted I've never liked a "variable power" amp... I think its cause if the top power of an amp is 22w it needs a transformer to deal with that.. when you "cut the power" down to less than a watt it never feels right to me... and the one I heard in the store definitely did NOT sound like a Deluxe turned to 8 when the "power" was turned down.. it had the same sort of sound (and i'd bet feel) of any other variable power amp i've heard.
I know lots of steel players (I have literally never met a guitar player that likes one for stage use) like the XLR out so thats great for a lot of folks! (I think the cab and the speakers has SO much to do with the sound.
I am not bad mouthing it at all and I hope it doesn't come out like it.. it seems like one of the best products Fender has come out with in a while amp wise. I really look forward to playing around with one for an extended period for sure! |
Josh, I do work for Fender as a product manager for amps. I too love my tube amps and I'm not selling them anytime soon. However after having the TM amps at home and at work, I stopped trying to wrestle with the whole "but there are no tubes!" thing and just started playing the amps. What I found is that they have slight differences but nothing that stops me from playing well or getting good tone. If anything the midrange and high mids are slightly smoother than the tube version.
We never thought that these would replace tube amps but they would be more for gigging guys that want to that sound in a lighter package that is easy to dial in for live or recording. I would never say any attenuator, digital or tube, will capture the visceral sound or an amp cranked but if you knock the Twin down a notch or two the tone stays almost the same and helps get the right sound for smaller gigs. Sometimes 85 Watts is just too much!
Here's a clip from a few months ago of me playing pretty loud in my living room with the TM Twin for reference.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAmE32Onq0L/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
We've also got a cool 40 Watt all-tube amp coming out called the '68 Custom Pro Reverb that is also light (35lbs), got more headroom and is smaller than a Deluxe, and sounds great. I'm trying to give guitarists (and Steel players) some options these days!
_________________
Sr Product Manager - Fender Amplifiers |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2021 9:09 am
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| Rick, that was awesome sounding. I haven't gotten the same results with my tone Master twin. Granted I'm not playing an Emmons, but I get my tone from other amps ok. Care to share your settings so I have a basis to compare with. I run the mids from 8-10 bass 2.5 and treble at 6. I have tried a variety of combinations but that's my best and still not great. |
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John Sluszny
From:
Brussels, Belgium
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Posted 26 Jan 2021 9:27 am
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| Rick, it sounds really good ! Thanks for the demo. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2021 9:57 am
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Larry I set mine:
Volume 4
Treble 4
Mids 2
Bass 5.5
Reverb 4
I also have the upgrade for the reverb. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2021 10:05 am
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| Craig, wow you have the mids light. I will try all the suggestions for the best results. I did cut my mids in the beginning as with Peavey and I didn't care for the tone. Jack Stoner said he ran them full on for his Franklin. No matter I'm giving it a shot. Thanks for sharing. |
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Rick Heins
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 26 Jan 2021 10:22 am
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| Larry Dering wrote: |
| Rick, that was awesome sounding. I haven't gotten the same results with my tone Master twin. Granted I'm not playing an Emmons, but I get my tone from other amps ok. Care to share your settings so I have a basis to compare with. I run the mids from 8-10 bass 2.5 and treble at 6. I have tried a variety of combinations but that's my best and still not great. |
My settings have moved around a little but I mostly use:
5-5.5 Volume (bring down the attenuator if this too loud at full volume. I think it's the key to getting the right sound)
5-6 Treble
4-5 Middle
5-6 Bass
4-5 Reverb (make sure to do the update on our website to get more flexibility with the sweep of the reverb)
The Emmons push pull does help a little.  Hope this helps.
_________________
Sr Product Manager - Fender Amplifiers |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2021 10:36 am
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| Sweet, thank you Rick. I'm going for it now. I will post my results later. |
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Charlie Thompson
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 31 Jan 2021 8:10 am
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| Consider what VP you are using . The pots will likely need higher treble settings, not so much on the active ones. I'd also suggest if possible a side by side with your favorite tube amp at a stage volume |
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Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 2 Feb 2021 3:00 pm
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i've used mine on lots of live gigs. before i used it i was using an old twin (with a single altec 418b) and for a while a milkman half and half.
i love it. i did replace one of the original speakers with a weber neomag.
i've played some blasters with it on full power, but for the most part i've had it on the 40 watt setting. plenty of volume on tap.
i've said this on this thread before; it won't beat the real deal tone wise in that perfect situation where you need a twin set on 6 for volume. but for pretty much anything else the tonemaster works better for me. it's more consistent in more situations than the real deal, and i can practice with it at home and get pretty near the same sound i'm using at gigs.
i've updated the reverb and i still think it sucks. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2021 6:02 pm
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| Well I tried all the settings and for me with all the tones at 4.5 and reverb at 2 was as close as I came to a reasonable tone. I haven't updated the reverb yet so that remains to be done. Still no match for my tastes. I used a Goodrich and Hilton pedal, with and without a matchbox and experiments with outboard eq and reverb. Its a usable tone just not my favorite. |
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Ron Hogan
From:
Nashville, TN, usa
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Posted 9 Feb 2021 12:39 pm
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As usual, I'm experimenting with amps. Fun for me and if I don't like it I sell.
FENDER Tone Master Twin reverb w/ZOOM pedal for reverb effect (I don't like the FENDER reverb). Faster tune and then slower.
Faster FIRST SAMPLE
Slower SECOND SAMPLE
Ron |
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Thomas Alexander
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 17 Sep 2022 11:59 am
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Just wanted to add my settings for anyone troubleshooting the tone of their own amp.
Volume - 5
Treble - 4.5
Middle - 3.5
Bass - 4.5
Reverb - 4.5
My signal path is: GFI III -> Goodrich 120 -> TM Twin, using 3' and 10' George L .155 cables. At home volume I run it on the 5w attenuator setting. I have not updated the reverb--right now it sounds very dry below 4 (FWIW on my previous amp I always ran a little delay with reverb, so my ear may just be used to a longer dwelling reverb).
When I first got the amp I spent a week dealing with awful tone--somehow harsh and dull at the same time. I'm not sure if it was just a matter of breaking the speakers in a little bit or tweaking the pots, but it seems to have settled down to a normal Fender-ish tone now. With the above settings I do think I have lost some clarity in the low end, but at least now I'm not cringing from icepick tone every time I go above the 10th fret.
I need a chance to let it rip at the 85w setting and test the line out/cab sims before I can decide if I will keep it. The age of this thread seems to imply that the hype over this amp has died down somewhat, so I am interested to see how others feel about their purchases after using the TM Twin for a while. Special thanks to those members who offered their experiences in reply to my PMs. |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2022 12:32 pm Tm
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I had one and liked it.
Do the reverb mod, it’s free and it helps. I found I had to crank the mids a bit more than the usual Fender tone stack.
If you don’t dig it , it should sell fast locally . Six stringers love them.
I would have kept it, and wouldn’t mind another. It was just time to thin the herd. I don’t think enthusiasm is dying down for these , and they do well for double duty.
Sell it or keep it , it’s not hard to find another. |
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Michael Rademacher
From:
Killeen, Texas
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Posted 17 Sep 2022 5:42 pm TM Twin
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I got my new TM Twin a few weeks ago. I like it just fine. As I said in my review on Sweetwater's website, this Twin does what a Twin is known to do, and it does sound like a typical Twin (fat, meaty tone) although it may not sound exactly like anyone's particular Twin. There have been many variations of the Twin over the years and no two of them are identical, which can be said of any amp in Fender's range (or anyone else's for that matter). I am using it for guitar right now, while I await my Rittenberry. I am trying to reawaken the guitar chops I used to have back in the day. It's a struggle, as my fingers don't want to do what they used to do haha.
As for the TM series itself, I saw in much earlier posts that Fender might not do a TM Princeton as it is already light weight and has no real need of power scaling (and now they just introduced the TM Princeton LOL). I was hoping for a TM Vibrolux Reverb 35-40W 2x10 as that model has always fascinated me and I've always wanted one. But then, we do have the TM Super Reverb now in that power range, although I don't want a 4x10 setup for dual guitar/PSG duty. The Twin will serve well in both roles, I am sure. With this new TM Twin, I am pretty sure I will not need any more amps. Besides, I still have my Super Champ x2 that I like to play around with (sad to see Fender close out the Fender Fuse site though). And I still have my Vox AC15 which someone on this forum (cannot remember who) plays their PSG through and likes it.
I would say that interest in the TM series is not waning. Just the opposite; as more people buy and use them, more other people are exposed to them and can try them out for themselves. So I would venture a guess that the TM series will continue to steadily gain users. All people need to convince them is to hear it, and lift it. Done deal!
Edit: My only nitpick with the TM Twin concerns the XLR jack. When I try to remove the female XLR cable from the jack on the rear of the amp, it is a tight fit to get my fingers in there in the 6/12 o'clock position to release the little tab that locks the connector in place. If the jack were oriented to a 3/9 o'clock position, it would be much easier to get fingers in there to depress the release tab and pull the XLR plug out. That is the only item in my gripe list. No wait, there's one more. I wish the amp came with the cable needed for updates. I don't have a USB-C connector in the house so I'll have to go buy one. These are cheap and in my opinion, should just come with the amp.
_________________
2024 Rittenberry SD10 4&5 Prestige
May God have mercy on my no-music-theory-having soul. |
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Thomas Alexander
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Oct 2022 7:38 pm
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Ended up returning the TM and getting a Milkman The Amp 100. Hooked up a TT12 speaker in a 1x12 Mojotone Lite cab--sounds great!
Word of caution to anyone interested in the Mojotone Lite cabs: the mounting screws that come with the cab are too short to mount the TT12. I ended up using 1" M5 machine screws with a few 6mm washers to make up for the narrower screw head. You'll also need wire strippers on hand to cut off the quick slide speaker connectors that come with the Mojotone jack and strip the wire ends, because the TT12 uses a spring-loaded clamp lead rather than the standard lead. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2022 4:37 am
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| Thomas, too bad you didn't record a clip of the Tonemaster vs the Milkman to share. I would love to hear the comparison between these two. |
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Ken Morgan
From:
Midland, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2022 5:39 am
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Thomas, thanks for the heads up on TT speakers and Mojo Lite cabs. I’ve been using that Mojo cab for a few years loaded with WGS ET90, and was in the middle of shopping around for a different speaker…your observations are *very* helpful.
If it matters using a Quilter Mach 3. Sounds perfect with 6 string, pretty dang good with steel.
_________________
67 Shobud Blue Darling III, scads of pedals and such, more 6 strings than I got room for
Ken Morgan
Midland, TX |
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Thomas Alexander
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 12 Oct 2022 11:44 am
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Sorry Larry! I wish I had done that now because I am always asking people if they have sound clips from their amps. If my recollection is of any help, I can offer these comments:
The tones out of the speaker are similar Fender-ish sounds--the biggest difference for me is that the Milkman rolls off the ultra-high frequencies into a twangy sound, whereas with the TM the ultra high frequencies are a little sharp/piercing. On the TM I could turn down the treble to soften the highs, but then I lost clarity in the mids/lows. To my ear turning up the Milkman treble control just makes the tone brighter and twangier. Granted, the TM actually sounded fine with the treble a little sharp in a band mix, but at the same settings on its own I found it a little icepicky.
I think the TM is better suited for somebody who is going to gig multiple times per week and wants a very portable 2x12 combo. I really liked that about the Twin--add a small pedal board and you're ready to gig. The attenuator adjusts power to match room size really easily, and the amp sounds enough like a Twin that nobody at a bar show would know the difference if you removed the Tone Master badge. It's a very capable amp for the price.
I play out maybe once every 2 weeks, and usually that's just jamming with friends. So I'm more interested in an amp that has a great tone when I'm woodshedding, and also happens to be loud enough to keep up with a 5 piece group every now and then.
No problem Ken! Happy to share. |
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Jim Norman
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2022 2:18 pm
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| Has anybody had a chance to compare the newer blonde twin with the original model? Jensen N-12K in the original and Celestion G12 Neo Creambacks in the blonde--wondering how much of a difference this makes and which is better suited to steel. Thanks for any thoughts. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2022 2:55 pm
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| Thomas, I have a love/hate relationship with the Tonemaster twin. I play it and it sounds ok but not inspiring. I can play my old tube twins and wallow in their tone. I tried lots of outboard pedals, EQs, amp sims, and so on with little improvement. I love its tone for both Telecaster and Archtop guitar, just not for pedal steel. It's suitable but not what I prefer. |
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Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 20 Nov 2022 9:33 am
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i still think it's a great amp for steel, but....
yesterday i pulled my real twin out (1972 with altec 418b 15").
i did a direct comparison (same tone settings) with the real twin being eq'd first. the tonemaster did not sound too good with the same settings. i adjusted the eq and got the tone i normally get (and really like) from the tonemaster.
the real twin sounded better, and the thing i had missed the most was how it felt to play the real twin. it's much more alive.
the tonemaster had a crisper bass and the real twin was looser (different speakers?). live i think my real twin was always temperamental in dialing in the right bass eq.
i didn't get too far into the test before my wife came down and told me that the walls were shaking and i should turn it down. i hit the attenuator on the tonemaster and spent the rest of my session not hating my sound and not going deaf...that's the true beauty of the thing. you can't do that with the real thing.
verdict: next gig i'll bring the tonemaster. next recording session i'll bring the twin. |
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