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Topic: Keyless pedal steel market |
Joe Krumel
From:
Hermitage, Tn.
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 12:33 pm |
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Sonny,
Plus, it gives me someplace to lay my bar. 
Erv |
I agree,that is one thing I do miss big time! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 2:07 pm Re: Keyless pedal steel market
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| Johnie King wrote: |
What percentage of steel players would you say prefer a keyless pedal steel?
Too me I like both keyed Model an keyless model equally. The GFI keyless system is my favorite because you can tune the open tuning with out a wrench. |
It's less than one in ten, I'm sure. In some areas, probably one in twenty is closer, so about 5%. |
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Clark Doughty
From:
KANSAS
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 2:52 pm Zum Keyless
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I sold the keyless Zum that Bruce built for Tommy Dodd because every time I wanted
to tune an open string I had to pick up a wrench. Also the strings were NOT easy to
change. After watching Bruce put on a new set of strings I never tried to change the strings.
I agree with you Johnny that if I ever own a keyless it will be the GFI......clark |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2019 8:28 pm Zum Keyless
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I have no preference yet. But I will soon know what I like.
I went and picked up another GFI S 12U Sept 4. I now have a GFI keyed S 12U that I gigged tonight. The Keyless is here in its case. I will have to change at least the pedals, It is set up Emmons/Nashville and I will change it to Day Setup before I will play it, And levers if needed, I bought it for a standby, I play every Friday night in a house band.
I have played Day since 1970.
I have had 4 key head steels. Never played or worked on a keyless, So the adventure continues. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2019 1:59 pm
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| I want an S12U that will fit into a Tenor Sax case, so Keyless is more practicle in that regard. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 8 Sep 2019 12:41 am
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My Excel looks like a tenor sax. If anyone asks if I need a hand I say yes and wait for their expression to change when they go to lift it.
Still light compared to other steels, though 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 8 Sep 2019 2:26 am
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
| I want an S12U that will fit into a Tenor Sax case, so Keyless is more practicle in that regard. |
That's about the size of the case for my little Williams Keyless S-10.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Gabriel Edell
From:
Hamilton, Ontario
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Posted 8 Sep 2019 7:08 am
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I can see how having to use a wrench to tune would be a big deterrent. Easy to lose or forget at home. And what if you drop it on a dark stage? Generally inconvenient.
Does anyone other than GFI make a keyless with knobs instead of hex screws? Maybe if everyone used systems with knobs instead of wrenches keyless guitars would be more popular.
_________________
GFI S-10 P U, Moyo Volume, Fender Steel King, Fender 5F4 Super-Amp |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2019 7:23 am
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I have had 2.. An early keyless Willy and a GFI.. meh.. They were both small and light. Aside from that I didn't like either of them very much at all, and was sorry I bought them. Actually i traded a really clean later ProI for the GFI, and the guy swapped, and got the hell out of there as fast as he could. I don't blame him one bit. That GFI danced all over the floor, and sounded awful to my ears.. The Willy was not very stable when playing it, did not stay in tune well, but sounded pretty nice. Kind of woody like an old Bud or similar . Both of them were a pain in the rear end to change strings on as well.. NEVER could understand why so many guys like the keyless.. I tried twice, and will not try again... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2019 8:02 am
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All keyless guitars are not created equal. The head is just one aspect of the design. For example, the keyless Sierra Session didn't require a wrench to tune (picture by forum member Tony Palmer).
The new Sierra models use the same wrench that you use to tune the pedals. There's a holder for bar, picks and wrench, keeping them all handy.
(The male side of the wrench slips into a hole in the holder, not visible in the picture.) I carry my bar, picks and wrench together in the same bag. If I forget that, I guess I'm SOL. 
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 8 Sep 2019 12:41 pm
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| Gabriel Edell wrote: |
| I can see how having to use a wrench to tune would be a big deterrent. Easy to lose or forget at home. And what if you drop it on a dark stage? Generally inconvenient. |
I use the same wrench to tune the pulls, tune the open notes, and secure the strings on my Williams. The same wrench is used on both ends of the guitar.
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Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 8 Sep 2019 1:34 pm
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| My keyless heads use a wrench I make to tune both ends. Players have always used that "what if",,,like they have not always used a devise to tune pulls/raises,,,LOL |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2019 4:08 am
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Excel keyless stores the tools right on the guitar:
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2019 6:03 am
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| The neatest keyless system I have seen is on the Bennett steel made in England. You put the string through a slot and somehow it clamps the string tightly when you start to bring it to pitch. There are pictures of it somewhere, I don't have time to look for them. I thought it was very ingenious although maybe expensive to manufacture at least at first glance. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2019 6:23 am
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| Apologies for Jim Corbett's shorts and socks! Laughing |
I loved being able to hear my guitar from the audience. You made it sound beautiful.....even with dead strings on it.... 
Yeah, those socks have to go....LOL!
dz
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 9 Sep 2019 6:41 am
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You're right Doug. The Bennett system is very cool. I talked with Ron (really nice guy, fun to talk with) about licensing the design a long time ago. He wasn't opposed to the idea and agreed to sell me one to check it out. Perhaps he changed his mind since, unfortunately, that never happened.
He was careful to point out that his system could be a bit finicky (especially on the thinnest strings) and required very tight tolerances. I kept this in mind while I designed my own one bolt system. I spent about 3 months designing, testing and refining my version which allowed the strings enter and exit the tuner on top of the guitar so loading and pretensioning the strings would be a bit more convenient. Ron's tuner has the strings exiting the tuner underneath the guitar.
He was right about the finicky part, gripping those little strings with the cam action involved required some very tight tolerances and some specific materials. I got it all to work and was quite proud at how trick it was.....but dumped it when I could not find a way around the "hysteresis" my system exhibited on the wound strings. This was due to the top string exit I wanted.
This was a blessing in disguise, because my design would've been a very difficult and spendy idea to put into production so I ended up going with something much, much simpler that was very much inspired by those designed by Noel Anstead (Anapeg) and Lamar Colvin...once again simplicity rules!
I'll try to dig one up and post pics later. |
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Jeff Spencer
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 10 Sep 2019 2:56 am
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| I suspect you'll love it Jeremy!! Noel put some work into that one. 😉👠|
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 10 Sep 2019 6:27 am
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Loving it already. Never had the Bb change before. I can see it all squeezes quite tightly in there in places. All I had to do was lift the vertical and put a bit of a slant on my RKR, and the whole guitar fits me perfectly. Haven’t adjusted any pedals or even tuned it since it was unpacked.
It all works slightly naughtily deliciously - I’ll have to watch my facial expressions when I play it, in case someone lifts footage for a porn movie.
Thanks to you, my Brisbane friends
_________________
Luke Drifter on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ralwaybell
https://www.facebook.com/jeremy.j.threlfall
http://ralwaybell.bandcamp.com/ |
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