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Topic: Current PSG brands with extra changer finger? |
John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2019 6:04 pm |
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Are there any currently-built steels that offer an extra changer finger, which is used to achieve multiple half-stops anywhere you like? Some Carters had that, I believe, and some PedalMasters. It's really a useful feature, wish more steels had them. Does Excel? Anyone ever invent an undercarriage add-on part that achieves that?
Reason I ask is I'd like to get both E >F changes going up to F#, and if I had a spare string whose return spring I could use, I'd be home free, or at least get one reliable double stop on string 4. But my copedent with A+F really can utilize all 12 strings, so there's no errant string to use this way.
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▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2019 6:48 pm
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An extra finger? You mean extra raise/lower beyond 3&3?
My Excel has a 5 raise/4 lower changer and there's plenty enough capacity to do anything I could dream up. On the Excel, the half stops are stand-alone gadgets independent of the changer. They're super clever and so simple you have to look twice to even realize they are half stops. They are also springless so you don't pick up more tension when you cross the line . I have 2 of them on my U12 but I could have as many as I want. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 6 Aug 2019 8:19 pm
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I've seen the same extra finger thingy on an MCI guitar too. It doesn't do anything extra or different than a conventional half stop except it allows you to tune the intermediate note with a nylon nut at the end plate, vs. reaching underneath and turning a barrel or half-tone tuner.
On the Carter I once owned there was no actual finger, it was just an extra lowering scissor with a lower return spring, which provided the resistance for the intermediate stop. It had three holes, so theoretically you could use that same spring for three different half stops on three different levers, but it sounds like you want to have a half stop affect two different strings simultaneously on the same lever, which is different, and is a little trickier to achieve.
The Carter style half stop, or any half stop really, is going to affect all pulls on a given cross shaft simultaneously. If both E-F-F# pulls you want are the same lever/shaft (presumably strings 4 & 8 ), the pull between the intermediate and max raised note will have to be timed perfectly between the two strings. This doable, but it's a separate thing from the half stop. If you're patient and have lots of leverage options on your guitar you might get this to work.
One other way to accomplish this that is perhaps a little more tunable, is to add a compensator, an extra lowering rod on string 8. Tune the F# on string 4 with the nylon, then fine tune the intermediate F note with the half stop; fine tune the F on string 8 with the nylon; tune the final F# on 8 with the extra lowering rod. The drawback to this is that you will feel a "hitch" in the middle of the second pull when the compensator engages. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 12:40 am
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My recent model Williams U12 has a 13th finger with two rods attached, for the half stops I have on string 2 (conventional) and string 8 (lowers to D so I don't need a P6).
It works on the same principle as all spring-loaded half stops, except it uses existing components and existing space. Neat.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 2:42 am
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My now over 20years old Remington S10LG had an extra bracket w a small finger and spring which the halfstop pullrod went through. There was a separate slot where the nylon tuner was, next to the 10 other normal nylon tuners.
An L shaped bracket w a drilled hole for the pullrod, a compression spring and a nut to adjust when spring engage would do the trick tho. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 6:05 am
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| My MSA has them, one on each neck. I've seen the feature on other guitars, but don't recall the brands as I don't even use the ones on the MSA. I play a very simple, but slightly unorthodox setup, so I don't consider the feature that important. |
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Ron Hogan
From:
Nashville, TN, usa
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 6:24 am
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I always thought the Carter way was very good.
SHO-Bud had one on their Super Pro that was a separate piece installed. Straight forward install and tuned under the guitar. PSG parts still make them for purchase and you could adapt it to your Bell Crank.
The one you see on a Super Pro is one that I'm rebuilding which soon will be for sale.
PSG Parts
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 7:19 am
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Great info, guys, thanks. Johnstone, great to find you chiming in more often here on the forum! You provide another reason why I can see an Excel in my future. That 5R/4L changer would really give me what I want, I could use at least a 4th raise on string 1 of E9, I use tuning compensators with that string on a bunch of pedals and levers.
Ron Hogan, that undercarriage springy device is what I had on my 1976 MSA and have on my 1991 pre-RP Mullen, works well. But the elegance of the 13th spring appeals to my sense of design aesthetics!
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E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 8:37 am
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On the two last pictures in this post, see link
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=254695
There you can see the halfstop pullrod and spring between both necks and at the endplate one can see the slot where the nylon tuner for the halfstop is. It is not a fullsize changer finger, just a smaller version that could be installed as an add on at the underside of the guitar. My guitar has room for 2 pullrods on that finger or just to select upper/lower hole for different tension on the halfstop.
B.Erlandsen |
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Jim Park
From:
Carson City, Nv
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 7:55 pm
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 [/img] Here is the Halfstop on an Infinity. The half stop is on the D#-C#. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 11:29 pm
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That's pretty much how my Williams looks.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Aug 2019 5:24 am
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| Jim Park wrote: |
| [/img] Here is the Halfstop on an Infinity. The half stop is on the D#-C#. |
The Carter is the same. The only problem with the Carter was the spring was not adjustable (one of my pet peeves with any brand with non-adjustable springs), and the feel stop was pretty weak. I ended up cutting 2 windings off the spring. But that made it way too stiff. I cut 1 winding off a new spring, and it is perfect.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Mitchell Smithey
From:
Dallas, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2019 7:54 pm
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| The MSA has a cutout in the end plate for that purpose but it is rarely needed. If a guitar has split screws it’s easy to use the 9th string nylon tuner for the half stop and tune the 9th string with the split screw. And the tension is adjustable with the return spring. Every now and then we get a setup that is so dense we will use what we call a dead finger, which is just the lowering half of the scissor assembly. Hence all the guitars have the cutout but very few have a dead finger behind them. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2019 12:57 am
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Great info, gang. Anyone have a link to a very classy European stand-alone half stop I saw on the Forum sometime ago? Think it had a tensioned ball bearing versus spring.
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Les Wright
From:
Norfolk,England
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2019 5:01 am
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The changer in my Excel has 11 raise and lower slots with 2 dedicated to the tuning change lever:
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 6 Oct 2019 7:22 pm
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Here's is a pic of the cutout for the 2nd string half stop on my 86' MCI welded frame D10 ... well before Carter but probably designed by Bud Carter whilst he worked at MCI.
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14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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