steelinatune---When I Wish Upon A Star

[Dale Rottacker]

I was watching both Jody Cameron and Travis Toy playing this yesterday, so my goal today was to try to FINALLY play this... Enjoy, Hope you like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbffjgArJOo

[Andy Vance]

Hey Dale!

That sounded really good, thanks for posting. I'm pretty sure 90% of that isn't on my guitar though

[Dale Rottacker]

Hey Dale!

That sounded really good, thanks for posting. I'm pretty sure 90% of that isn't on my guitar though

Thanks Andy... I have 3 (I think) Randy Beavers changes, or additions on this guitar... I’m still somewhat undecided if I want them in the positions that they’re in, but then the longer I play with them where they are, the more I'm getting used to them there.

[Roger Rettig]

That's nice, Dale - it lays well on E9.

We've touched on this before but can you share those extra changes you have? I can get all those inversions that you played here but I find myself in different positions to get them. There is more than one way of getting the same thing, of course, but I'm interested as I have a redundant LKV that's crying out for an intelligent application!

Good job, as always.

[Dale Rottacker]

That's nice, Dale - it lays well on E9.

We've touched on this before but can you share those extra changes you have? I can get all those inversions that you played here but I find myself in different positions to get them. There is more than one way of getting the same thing, of course, but I'm interested as I have a redundant LKV that's crying out for an intelligent application!

Good job, as always.

Roger thank you for you kind words, they’re appreciated ... here’s my copedent...



I don’t actually have that staggered LKL2, but may add it... I’m not sure that this will be my “Final” configuration , but am playing with it... I’ve thought about “Unsplitting” my E’s back to the Left Knee... I’m sure I’m over-analyzing something here and don’t know all the proper “Math” formulas to get the most out of it, but do see the advantages of having both E’s on the Left... some of the Randy stuff you’ll find on that vertical, though I may move it to a stagger at some point... I’m not a big fan of stagger’s or verticals... whats a guy to do.... LOL... also notice LKR with a raise on the 9th string, I had not seen this change before, but it worked well on this song... also RKR... it’s pretty standard except for that whole lower of 10... I really like that in certain instances but there are times I want to lower 9 and leave 10 alone... I aslo moved my 5&10 lower to my 0 pedal as per Travis Toy’s suggestion... there’s only a few instances where I might prefer it on a vertical, but I guess that’s the way it is with any configuration.... Any advice, insight or suggestions are welcome.

[Roger Rettig]

Thank you, Dale!

My RKR is standard (2/9 lower).

My RKL lowers the 5th to Bb but also lowers 10 to a G#. (5 and 10 used to only go to Bb.) Now, those aren't much use together but I like that occasional low-range on the 10th. I think I'd like the 10th lower where you have it - on RKR. (I'd have it going down to G# but a feel-stop for the A.)

Your LKV is fascinating! I can't quite 'visualise' its potential yet but I will retune my guitar and see what comes up.

The extra 'raise' on your 9th string on LKR is another good idea.

My 5th string lower (to Bb) is too important to me to leave it on a pedal - I use it with A & B too much.

I've often pondered the 8th string raise on the C pedal - the jury's out for now.

My pedals 1,2,3,4 are like yours (except that 8th raise). As for Es on the same knee? To me that's ergonomic common sense as we never use them together.

PS: My redundant LKV is lowering 10 to a G# but it's physically impossible to use - that's why I wound off my 10th string RKL from just Bb down to G#. I'm tempted to copy your LKV - if I have enough rods lying around.

Thanks again - an interesting set-up (despite being the wrong way around! - 'Day' vs. Emmons, I mean. ) - the thinking man's E9!

[Dale Rottacker]

Thank you, Dale!

My RKR is standard (2/9 lower).

My RKL lowers the 5th to Bb but also lowers 10 to a G#. (5 and 10 used to only go to Bb.) Now, those aren't much use together but I like that occasional low-range on the 10th. I think I'd like the 10th lower where you have it - on RKR. (I'd have it going down to G# but a feel-stop for the A.)

Your LKV is fascinating! I can't quite 'visualise' its potential yet but I will retune my guitar and see what comes up.

The extra 'raise' on your 9th string on LKR is another good idea.

My 5th string lower (to Bb) is too important to me to leave it on a pedal - I use it with A & B too much.

I've often pondered the 8th string raise on the C pedal - the jury's out for now.

My pedals 1,2,3,4 are like yours (except that 8th raise). As for Es on the same knee? To me that's ergonomic common sense as we never use them together.

PS: My redundant LKV is lowering 10 to a G# but it's physically impossible to use - that's why I wound off my 10th string RKL from just Bb down to G#. I'm tempted to copy your LKV - if I have enough rods lying around.

Thanks again - an interesting set-up (despite being the wrong way around! - 'Day' vs. Emmons, I mean. ) - the thinking man's E9!

My standard RKR was like yours till I got a guitar that had the 7th string half/whole raise on it... I love it and use it a lot... especially with AB pedals which I think gives you a M7...

My Vertical is where I got the opening chords on this song... 9854 at 3... 9865 at 6

I tend to lower 5 more with it on the floor than I did on the Vertical... I've always been a half pedaler of 5, so usually use it by itself anyhow... MOST of the time

You're a Day guy?

[Roger Rettig]

Quite a number of British players got started playing 'Day' because the steel tech who set up the imported guitars (ZBs and Emmons, mainly), Gordon Huntley, played 'Day' himself.

That was how my first guitar was and I knew no different. I have to have my wits about me to play anything on an 'Emmons' set up!

Yes - that 7th string 'raise' on RKR; that's another I want to try. Tommy White has it, I believe. I can see the point of the whole-step raise but, as yet, not the half-step.

PS! Ever since Junior Mercer put the 5 & 6th string whole-tone lower on my pedal 4 for me I'm unable to get an in-tune 'split' on string 5 with my A pedal and my RKL - I'm sure in can be achieved with a compensator but, for now, I'm having to learn to half-pedal that pull. It's a challenge at speed.

[Dale Rottacker]

Roger, the half raise on the 7th string with pedals down gives you a dom7th... (Look at me giving theory lessons LOL) and with pedals down and a whole raise on 7 gives a Maj7th.

I’m able to get a true split with A and half of 5 on my MSA, I haven’t figured out how to get it on the Ritt... Both guitars have the whole 56 lower as well.

[Roger Rettig]

Yes, of course it does - silly me!

Like you, however, I have the F# - G# raise on the KL that also raises the 1st and 2nd. Couldn't that be used instead of adding it to RKR? I can easily 'half-pedal' that knee
- LKL2 for me - to get the half-step raise. I already do that a lot with pedals down to get the b7th chord. Is there a purpose in having it on RKR as well (that I can't yet grasp)?

[Dale Rottacker]

Yes, of course it does - silly me!

Like you, however, I have the F# - G# raise on the KL that also raises the 1st and 2nd. Couldn't that be used instead of adding it to RKR? I can easily 'half-pedal' that knee
- LKL2 for me - to get the half-step raise. I already do that a lot with pedals down to get the b7th chord. Is there a purpose in having it on RKR as well (that I can't yet grasp)?

Hey Roger, sure you can do that... you could even add that 9th string raise to D# on it, though you may have to reset your “half-pedal” feel on it...

I have a little redundancy here with the 7th raise also on my RKR... That’s where it was when I first became acquainted with that pull, so I actually use it, AT THIS TIME, more naturally than I would on my LKR, and I use it with the 9th string lower on RKR as well.

Would love to know what you come up with and decide on...

BTW... something I Don’t have on the Rittenberry but do have on my MSA, is a whole lower of both 9 and 6... on the MSA I can use it with my B pedal, my 5 half and also whole lower, as well as lowering my E’s.... By itself it gives you a 9th (maybe need to use B pedal too... I don’t remember)... but you get it using strings 9865... You can get that 9th chord by dropping down 2 frets and using 9765 I think with A and or B pedals down, but the seamlessness of the whole lower of 9 and 6 in conjunction with AB 5 lower and E’s lowered you can’t... I’m still undecided on it on the Rittenberry.... I tried using it and the half lower of 9 and 6 on my vertical, but that a little difficult getting a good half stop or feel there... Decisions decisions LOL...

Sorry if some of that was a little dis-jointed

[Roger Rettig]

I'd already jotted that 9th string 'raise' down and intend to add it to my LKL2.

I'm so nervous about any under-guitar surgery, though, that I'll need a clear week before I even contemplate it! The good thing about these 'extra' pulls is that they're not vital should anything go wrong (very likely when I get any sort of wrench in my hand!)

I also want to switch my pedal 4 on C6 so it's a big job (although completely routine for all you guys! )

For now: add the D-D# to LKL2 and add the 10th string 'lower' to my RKR. That will mean losing the 10th string 'lower' on my RKL - my Emmons only has two 'lowers on each string. That's okay, though. I'll have my RKR take the 10th down to a G# and see if it's still a usable option on that lever.

Thanks again, Dale, for this useful conversation.

[Dale Rottacker]

Roger I really enjoyed the discussion and always appreciate you knowledge and insight.

Like you it took me a full week or maybe a bit more, to tackle tearing the Rittenberry down to re-rod it... I didn’t do a great job the first time, and ended up doing it a 2nd time, which is better, but now may do it a 3rd to refine it a little... Once you do it, you’ll learn so much that you start seeing other things that might be possible... Mickey Adams called me a few times to see how I was doing and set back on the road when I’d get off in the weeds... That was very helpful... If you’re only changing a rod or two, (something I’ve done many times) you shouldn’t have any problems.

Good luck, and let me know how it turns out.