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Topic: But is it Country? - Old Town Road |
Tim Sheinman
From:
Brighton, UK
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 26 May 2019 3:10 am |
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"Billboard charts denied...."
A decision that was justified, possibly including, but not limited to the following points
!) Opening line in the vid used profanity
2) Subservient women taking orders..fetching beer? aint gonna happen in the U S...
3) no fiddle, lead, steel nahdah, but had a nifty imported rap track
4) skin color? Irrelevant
_________________
Assorted gear and a set of hands...
https://www.facebook.com/garythelee
https://www.youtube.com/user/ZumEmm |
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Tim Sheinman
From:
Brighton, UK
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Posted 26 May 2019 3:35 am
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Remember it is the track that charts, not the video.
Billboard originally stated that Old Town Road is “not embracing enough elements of today’s country music in its current versionâ€.
Does this resonate with you?
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Williams Ext.E9, ToneTron, Hilton |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 May 2019 3:40 am
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Having a horse in a video does not make a song 'country'.
Obviously, only the individuals at Billboard that made the decision know if they're racist, but I for one am glad to see a line drawn. I don't believe race was the issue at all. If it were racist, then it would be wrong, but a blindfold test would clear up whether the song is country.
My understanding is that the record industry came up with classifications - country, rock, etc. - but there is some validity to it, and OTR simply oversteps the bounds of country.
(The idea that OTR is akin to 'outlaw' country misses the mark - outlaw country was at least recognizably country.)
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 26 May 2019 5:08 am
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| Tim Sheinman wrote: |
Remember it is the track that charts, not the video.
Billboard originally stated that Old Town Road is “not embracing enough elements of today’s country music in its current versionâ€.
Does this resonate with you? |
Resonate? I didn't hear a dobro either....
_________________
Assorted gear and a set of hands...
https://www.facebook.com/garythelee
https://www.youtube.com/user/ZumEmm |
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Dennis Brion
From:
Atwater, Ohio USA
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Posted 26 May 2019 5:58 am
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I agree with Dan cowboy hat and a horse doesn't make it country! It is the music industry again telling listeners what genre music "is". Lots of new country is rock n roll from my early years in Ohio on "whlo" am radio! I like lots of it but would not term it as "country"! I don't understand why it is wrong to classify music styles, why does everyone need to be included in everything. When was being the best at what you do, whatever music genre that is, not good enough. I would not choose to be mediocre in a style of music just to say I did a song in that genre. I listened to the cut and did not LIKE it at all, was not country at all in any form. Of course I still turn off the "DIXIE CHICKS" anytime they come on the radio so my red neck stands out clearly. Anyone is welcome to sing country music I am not racist and love charley and hootie all are welcome just do country!!
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1969 Custom built d10, Fender 25R practice amp,Dunlop pedal, Peavy Special 130 w/15" Blackwidow, Gretsch resonator, 41 Gibson 7 string lap steel, Epiphone flat top, 67 Epiphone Olympic |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 May 2019 8:25 am
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Is it "country"?
Sure it is...and Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates both only have a black and white TV.
| Quote: |
| This year, Billboard charts denied Old Town Road by Lil Nas X entry to the country charts. This was highly controversial and, to some, cast modern country music as largely being only open to white artists. |
When nothing else works, play the card. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 26 May 2019 9:16 am
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Here's the correct link to the Slate article:
https://slate.com/culture/2019/04/lil-nas-x-old-town-road-billboard-country-charts-hot-100.html
To ask me, "Is this country?", is asking the wrong guy, because I don't think most of the music I (rarely) hear on mainstream country radio sounds anything like country music to me. I like most kinds of music, if done well. And I acknowledge that trying to wrestle with defining genres of music to be pretty arbitray sausage-making. But personally, I routinely just scratch my head at Billboard's methodology. But even so, no - just listening to this, it doesn't sound like country music to me. Paraphrasing Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's 1964 obscenity test - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it - I think I can safely say "I know it when I hear it" and I just don't hear it here. But that's just one man's opinion.
I personally think it's also important, when thinking about motivations on anything like this, to remember that the music business is big business, and decisions like this that involve millions of dollars for various competing parties are done for business reasons. I think it's probably pretty hard to unravel the various business motivations behind all this because most of that is hidden from mainstream public view. But the idea that this was a racially motivated decision seems far-fetched to me. Seems to me that these people, collectively, will do pretty much anything to sell as much stuff as possible to as many people as possible.
Of course, when it comes to motivation, there is also Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
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Tim Sheinman
From:
Brighton, UK
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Posted 26 May 2019 9:47 am
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To have my two cents, I broadly agree that this is not country music, at least in any way that pays much deference to the history of country music.
However, Old Town Road is not being compared to some platonic idea of Country music, but rather it's immediate peers - Jason Aldean, Blake Shelton, Florida Georgia Line etc. Most of these artists sound like what we used to called Adult Oriented Rock and carry only light signifiers of country - mostly their accents and lyrical imagery.
Most of these artists have little more than a 'horse' (or pickup truck) to differentiate them from identical artists on mainstream radio.
In this regard, is Old Town Road guilty of not being 'country' enough, or just not being enough like these artists, who themselves are not very 'country' at all?
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Williams Ext.E9, ToneTron, Hilton |
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Dennis Brion
From:
Atwater, Ohio USA
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Posted 26 May 2019 11:19 am
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Tim that's why I listen to my CD player in my truck, David Ball, George Strait, Conway, Merle...you get the picture, I don't let the music industry tell me what is country... "I know" and I also like numerous genre of music and some of Blake, Jason and most of Florida Georgia line i don't like either because it's not country. Also think most artists are told what to record and play. It's the all mighty dollar that pushes the music industry, and what the 30 and under crowd wants to here is all that counts. Guess they forgot 50-70 age group has the biggest pocket books!
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1969 Custom built d10, Fender 25R practice amp,Dunlop pedal, Peavy Special 130 w/15" Blackwidow, Gretsch resonator, 41 Gibson 7 string lap steel, Epiphone flat top, 67 Epiphone Olympic |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 26 May 2019 1:00 pm
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It's certainly as country as Florida Georgia Line , Parmalee, Maren Morris, Sam Hunt, AJ McLean.......and hundreds of other acts that get airplay on lamestream "country" radio on a daily basis.
As for racist? I think anyone who denies the heavy white-dominated influence in the country music industry, now and always, is just being willfully blind to reality. So, is it racism as in "I don't like black people"? Probably not.......but it likely is, in the fact that if Kenny Chesney or any of the other white acts I listed above released this EXACT same track, it would all over the country charts. So, there's that. |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 26 May 2019 4:44 pm
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Dennis Brion
From:
Atwater, Ohio USA
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Posted 26 May 2019 6:12 pm
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Now that's funny my Jim....LOL
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1969 Custom built d10, Fender 25R practice amp,Dunlop pedal, Peavy Special 130 w/15" Blackwidow, Gretsch resonator, 41 Gibson 7 string lap steel, Epiphone flat top, 67 Epiphone Olympic |
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Franklin
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Franklin
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Posted 28 May 2019 7:41 am
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No artist could release these lyrics as a single to Country Radio. Country Radio banned Loretta Lynn's "The Pill" for the same reason....When lyrics fall outside the genres boundaries, game over at radio! Could it be the concept for a radio hit failed? It happens to everyone within all races.
...This song says "His horse is like its attached to his body" he then says he's watching her shake her booty in a sports bra, And then his hook for the song: "He's going to take "his horse" to the motel and ride it until he can't ride it no more" and the video promoting him shows he does what he wants to, when he wants to, and he doesn't seem to hold the woman in his windshield with much respect.
Its a false assumption to try and separate the video promotion away from the audio single...Country radio is shipped the whole promotional package before Billboard hears about it...Radio programmers would receive a thumb drive or click on a link as we did here to watch the video as they listen to the song while reading the artists resume........Billboard reports what radio stations are playing as it happens(Its the cart)...Radio decides first, yay or nay..(Its the horse) no pun intended...
Last edited by Franklin on 28 May 2019 7:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dennis Brion
From:
Atwater, Ohio USA
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Posted 28 May 2019 7:45 am
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The song starts out about ordering your woman around to fetch me a beer! Don't care who or what color you are that is a bad song! No one could do that song and make it a hit! Kane can really sing. He records some beautiful country style music. My point is about rappers and pop stars that only view country music as something to conquer not be a star! Taylor swift perfect example country music launched her but then she went to pop where she really wanted to be! Anyone is welcome to sing country music but if it's not just saying it won't make it be true!
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1969 Custom built d10, Fender 25R practice amp,Dunlop pedal, Peavy Special 130 w/15" Blackwidow, Gretsch resonator, 41 Gibson 7 string lap steel, Epiphone flat top, 67 Epiphone Olympic |
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Carl Houtz
From:
Central Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 28 May 2019 9:14 am Country Rap
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| In my opinion "Rap is Crap". |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 28 May 2019 9:32 am
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| Quote: |
No artist could release these lyrics as a single to Country Radio. Country Radio banned Loretta Lynn's "The Pill" for the same reason....When lyrics fall outside the genres boundaries, game over at radio! Could it be the concept for a radio hit failed? It happens to everyone within all races. ...
Its a false assumption to try and separate the video promotion away from the audio single...Country radio is shipped the whole promotional package before Billboard hears about it...Radio programmers would receive a thumb drive or click on a link as we did here to watch the video as they listen to the song while reading the artists resume |
I was thinking this type of thing when I wrote earlier, but didn't really know enough about how the process works to say for sure. I know after watching that video link that I was ready to bail right after that repeated "fetch me a beer, $%&^&" thing. I only hung on to hear what the music was about so I could decide whether or not to comment here.
I'm sorry, but if people want to do offensive stuff, a lot of people are gonna be offended and tune out or worse. I sometimes do some pretty aggressive, out-there music, and I have to accept that there are gonna be plenty of people that just want nothing to do with it. I have friends and family that just go, "Dave, you are capable of making very nice, pretty music. Why do you have to also go out and do this %&*$?" I do what I want, but you pays your money, and you takes your choice.
Hey Carl! |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 28 May 2019 12:38 pm
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| Franklin wrote: |
| No artist could release these lyrics as a single to Country Radio.. |
Tell that to Mitchell Tenpenny and Sony Nashville. This got all kinds of airplay and helped build his worthless career.
"B#tches"
https://youtu.be/ION_tTm_Eo8 |
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Dennis Brion
From:
Atwater, Ohio USA
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Posted 28 May 2019 4:05 pm
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Sorry Jim that also is not "country" music, that falls into country pop like previously mentioned Florida Georgia Line, like the guys voice but still not country music!
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1969 Custom built d10, Fender 25R practice amp,Dunlop pedal, Peavy Special 130 w/15" Blackwidow, Gretsch resonator, 41 Gibson 7 string lap steel, Epiphone flat top, 67 Epiphone Olympic |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 28 May 2019 4:12 pm
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| Dennis Brion wrote: |
| Sorry Jim that also is not "country" music, that falls into country pop like previously mentioned Florida Georgia Line, like the guys voice but still not country music! |
To you (and me!), maybe.......but that's not the point.
The question is, how different is "Old Town Road" from the music currently played on "country" radio stations, and being released by Nashville?
The answer is......no different at all.
So, then the question becomes, WHY exactly is it being singled out??
I think we all know the answer, if we're honest with ourselves.  |
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Dennis Brion
From:
Atwater, Ohio USA
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Posted 28 May 2019 4:26 pm
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As soon as he said "bitches" that was it for me my mom raised me better. The younger people today has regressed the moral attitude and accepted language to very low standards....the f bomb has become everyday language now! Again that's why I listen to my cd's in the truck so I can police the language, vulgarity and style of my "country" . The music industry are looking for anything to push the limits to please the younger customers!
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1969 Custom built d10, Fender 25R practice amp,Dunlop pedal, Peavy Special 130 w/15" Blackwidow, Gretsch resonator, 41 Gibson 7 string lap steel, Epiphone flat top, 67 Epiphone Olympic |
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Tim Sheinman
From:
Brighton, UK
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Posted 29 May 2019 9:15 am
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| Franklin wrote: |
...This song says "His horse is like its attached to his body" he then says he's watching her shake her booty in a sports bra, And then his hook for the song: "He's going to take "his horse" to the motel and ride it until he can't ride it no more" |
Hi Paul, I'm afraid that you've heard the lyrics wrong. Here is the chorus and a link to the full set, no mention of sports bras or motel rooms.
Yeah, I'm gonna take my horse to the old town road
I'm gonna ride 'til I can't no more
I'm gonna take my horse to the old town road
I'm gonna ride 'til I can't no more
Full Lyric - http://tiny.cc/15hh7y
The reason I originally said not to mind the video is that this song was released with a different video originally (when it was rejected by Billboard).
Old Town Road was a very low budget hit, with no label attached for much of its early life. It began getting exposure as a karaoke track on an app called Tik Tok, before securing a full release. Later Billy Ray Cyrus added a verse and the song was re-released in its newest form, complete with new video.
I also don't particularly agree with your ready example of Kane Brown. In the same year that Brown went to number one, he didn't receive a single nomination at the country music awards (while in contrast sweeping the cross genre American Music awards). One or two successful black artists in a genre does not prove the rule. To quote Jimmie Allen, who went to number 1 with his debut single,
“Outside of country music, it wouldn’t be new to anyone to be a black pop artist or a white rapper, but this genre is different.â€
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Williams Ext.E9, ToneTron, Hilton |
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Dylan Keating
From:
Montreal QC
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Posted 29 May 2019 10:59 am
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I like Steve Earle's take: https://youtu.be/CvCf9UMJKZ4?t=12
"I'm not gonna tell anybody what's country and what's not, because there were people that said what I was doing wasn't country when Guitar Town came out."
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"Steel a little and they throw you in jail, Steel a lot and they make you King." |
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W. Van Horn
From:
Houston, texas
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Posted 29 May 2019 2:37 pm
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"I got ketchup on my blue jeans, I just burnt my hand.
Lord, its hard to be a bachelor man.
I got girls that can cook, I got girls that can clean,
I got girls that can do anything in between.
I got to get ready, make everything right,
'cause all my rowdy friends are coming over tonight.
Do you want a drink. Hey do you want to party."
"So round, so firm, so fully packed, that's my gal
So complete, front to back, that's my pal
Toasted by the sun and I'm a son of a gun
She don't make my five o'clock shadow come around at one."
"I've known some painted ladies that sparkled in the light
Country girls that loved the lovers moon
Some I never really knew, though I always wanted to
Some I only met once in a room
Some said they liked my smile, others of 'em stayed a while
While others left me on the run
This is the only way, only way I have to say
I loved 'em every one"
"Well, yes, that's my bottle and yes, that's my glass
And I see you're eyeballin', this pretty young lass
It ain't none of your business but yes, she's with me
And we don't need no sermon, you self-righteous woman just let us be
The Lord knows I'm drinkin' and runnin' around
And He don't need your loud mouth informin' the town
The Lord knows I'm sinnin' and sinnin' ain't right
But me and the good Lord's gonna have us a good talk later tonight" |
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