12 string non extended E9 copedents

Paul McEvoy · From: Baltimore, USA

I ended up with a nice MSA extended E9 12 string. Itâ€™s my first PSG.

Iâ€™m wondering now if I will ever use the bottom two strings. Just wondering, are there any copendents that make use of the bottom two strings to offer some middle voices that are otherwise missed? Or add something to the top?

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Everything I have read or heard on 12 string steels is you can use E9th extended, C6 extended or Universal tunings.
I play at a GFI S 12 Universal (Jeff Newman tuning). There is a use for all strings from 3 to 11 except the 7th in E9th mode. It only use for string 12 is in the B6 tuning on the Newman tuning.
Open you get G#-E-B on strings 3-4-5. E-B-G# on strings 4-5-6. B-G#-E on strings 5-6-8, E-B-G# on strings 8-9-10 and B-G#-E on strings 9-10-11. By using 2 or 3 finger grips it gives you some neat sounds in different octives. I am still finding licks and voicings on the U 12 and not really got to work on the B6 change. Whole lot of new ground to play in.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Being's you're a beginner at this, I would suggest that you stick with the conventional/accepted tumings and setups, rather than trying to do something out-of-the-box, early on. This will assure that you have the most resources available to help you get started. After you get the basics down and get semi-proficient, you'll be in a better position to decide if you want to do something unique like going with a double re-entrant tuning.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Paul McEvoy · From: Baltimore, USA

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Also, Paul, if your guitar is extended E9 that implies it has only 3 or 4 pedals, so talk of universal tunings is probably not relevant.
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Paul McEvoy · From: Baltimore, USA

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I sure would like an E on that 12th string. Very Happy

Erv

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

What do you have on it, Erv?

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

After having my first PSG for a while, I thought I wanted an extended E9. I think it was because when I was at the beginning stages of learning, it was a lot of me playing PSG alone - without other instruments or backing tracks. The result was that I thought I wanted a fuller range of sound - because I felt like I had to cover the full range myself.

Once I played more with other instrumentation, I had to come to terms with the fact that I would rarely even touch the bottom 2 or 3 strings of the E9 10-string copedent. I was actually pretty stubborn about it and it took a while for me to not force those strings into my playing. Now I can only foresee wanting extended E9 if I'm going to be playing with little or no other instrumentation and need to cover the full range of sound in a song. I wouldn't let it bug you if you can't find a use for the bottom strings.

Aside from that, I agree with Donny and would add that you should temporarily forget about the breadth of technical possibilities of the instrument and should instead focus right now on sounding good and falling in love with the sound. Most pedal steel players are drawn to the instrument because of its complexity, so I know me saying that is a buzzkill.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

For various reasons, I've sort of settled on 12-string universal for my 12-strings. But I've had a couple of Ext E9 guitars and really liked them. I may yet get another at some point.

Earnest's setup looks very interesting, but just starting out, I concur with Donny's recommendation to stick with an established E9 setup, extended or not. All standard instructional materials are equally as relevant on Ext E9 as standard E9, and it really is a brilliant tuning with enormous possibilities. It really is not hard to just avoid the bottom two strings, especially if you start out with Ext E9 and don't get used to the 10-string version. But I find they come in handy at times, not just playing solo but in a band context.

I completely disagree that the 7th F# note is not useful in E9 "mode", either Ext E9 or universal. Aside from the obvious uses as the 2nd degree of the Emaj scale with pedals up and root of 2m chord with pedal B+C, it is even more useful with with A+B down. First, it's the 6th of the all-important A6 chord that this tuning becomes, and as Richard notes, it is the 3rd degree of the Dmaj scale starting at string 9, and with strings 9, 7, 6, 5, 4 gives a nice Dmaj9 chord (lose string 4 for maj7). With universal, that D note is missing but most setups get it with a lever. And combining this with the E=>Eb lever and A/B pedals gives some very nice moves.

Some aspects of the overal E9 setup are a bit subtle and may not smack you in the face initially. I mean, it takes a while to learn to make a pedal steel sound decent and in-tune moving up and down the neck and with the A, B, C pedals and the basic moves with the E and F levers. But I would not lose what some perceive as the "pesky" non-major-chordal strings like 7=F# and 9=D. It does require some concentrated practice to avoid sounding them when you don't want them. But the more you play, the more you'll realize that one of the critical skills in playing any type of steel guitar (with or without pedals) is being able to precisely control which strings you're picking. And of course, blocking is tricky but critical for playing any type of steel guitar.

So I wouldn't add any impediments to getting the basics down. In any reasonably complete Ext E9 steel, you should have enough to keep you going for years.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

The W is the infamous wrist lever.

Note that I drop the low B string to A on the A pedal.

This classical piece was played almost entirely extra bass strings. This arrangement cannot be played on even an extended E9. It requires that low B string and the drop to A.

https://pedalsteelmusic.com/?p=502
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Even if you don't have such a complex setup as Mike's (which is similar to mine in many ways), if you do have a low B on one of the bottom strings it's better to drop it to A than raise it to C# on the A pedal. You might want to raise it on the F lever if it doesn't make it too stiff.
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Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

I drop everything a whole step and play extended D9...does that count as a non-extended E9 tuning Smile

Seriously though, I don't play in a band but do solo arrangements and use the 2 low strings somewhere in just about every piece. It's a great way to get a full sound Winking

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Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Just leave the 10 string E9th as IT IS and put a G# on string 11 and an E on string 12..raise string 11 to an A with pedal 2.

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