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Topic: Homemade tube amp for PSG |
Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 May 2019 11:12 am |
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Hello Steelers. I’m finally going to take the plunge into building a tube amp. I have a friend who is an electronics guru, and he’s going to help me every step of the way. I was thinking about a Fender Deluxe schematic. What would other options be for a nice tube amp for PSG? I’d want to stay with one 12 or 15†speaker.
Thanks.
Al |
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Bill A. Moore
From:
Silver City, New Mexico, USA
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Posted 18 May 2019 11:52 am
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| I love the "Twin" I built with an SRO-15! |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 18 May 2019 12:02 pm
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Back in the tube days, the Twin Reverb was THE Pedal Steel amp. I worked on a lot of them in the early 70's when I worked as an amp tech (in Nashville).
That was my amp choice too, with a K-130 JBL. Now an Eminence EPS-15C is a good (lighter weight) choice. The EPS-15C, to me, sounds like the K-130 I had.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 May 2019 12:11 pm
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Thanks, Jack. I appreciate your help.
A Twin with one 12 would be perfect. Not too heavy. Is there a Fender amp that is like a Twin but with one speaker? |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 18 May 2019 12:17 pm
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I think you're gonna find the Deluxe a bit underpowered for use in a band situation. Two 6V6s (Deluxe) will only deliver about 20 watts; 2 x 6L6s (Pro,Super) about 40 watts; 4 x 6L6s (Twin,Vibrosonic) about 80 watts. Hoffman($$), Mojotone($$$), and Weber($) all offer kits for all of these.
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 May 2019 12:45 pm
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| Thanks, Steven. That’s exactly what my amp-tech friend just told me. He suggested something with 6L6s. |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 18 May 2019 1:07 pm
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| The Vibrasonic and Vibrosonic we’re both great steel amps (with an O is basically a Twin with a single 15.) |
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Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 May 2019 3:18 pm
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| Thanks, Ken. I’m leaning toward a Twin kind of sound. But with no reverb or tremolo or any affects. And with a single 12 or 15. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 18 May 2019 5:38 pm
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I've been playing in two bands. One is outlaw and classic country. The other is way different. I use organ simulation, distortion and other effects and play a more distorted style. My feeling is that a 12 sounds WAY better in the rock situation and the 15 gets outside the boundaries of the lead player's tone. With a 12, I cannot really hold my own space with the lead guy.
You might look at your style for clues on which one would be better. It'll work ok either way, though.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35 |
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Bill A. Moore
From:
Silver City, New Mexico, USA
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Posted 18 May 2019 5:54 pm
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| Another option is a head/cab with a single 12, and a single 15 cab. (Or since it is now a head, maybe a 2-12 cab.) |
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Chris Reesor
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 May 2019 9:37 pm
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Check out the high power tweed Twin circuit, 5F8A; could be just what you are looking for. Mojotone has a kit, or at least a prepunched chassis to get you started.
Search here for Ken Fox steel guitar amp; he built and sold a bunch of them a few years back, and they got pretty good reviews here.
Good luck on what could be a real rewarding project.
_________________
Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 May 2019 10:34 pm
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I'm using the set up Jack mentioned - a Twin with 2 K-130s, and I just love it. At 57, it was a beast for me to carry around, and I couldn't really get it all the way up into the back of my Tahoe. So, I had Rick Johnson build me a set of split cabs, and now it's very manageable - so you could consider a 2x12 cab as mentioned above.
I understand the tremelo, but am a bit curious as to why you wouldn't want a good tube reverb in your amp. If I was building my own custom amp, I would sans the tremelo, and have a good 3 knob reverb installed - like a stand alone Fender reverb. But, that's just me I guess. |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 19 May 2019 8:12 am
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My advice is start simple - something like a Tweed Champ or Princeton, and once you get your sea legs then you can extrapolate into a higher power build.
You may find that building an amp is not your bag, and you'll be glad you did not need to trouble shoot something very expensive.
On the other hand - and this is much more likely - you will find that building tube amplifiers is highly addictive. In that case, you will be glad that you learned some of the fundamentals from simple amplifier builds so when its time to build a higher power amp you are armed with more knowledge.
At this point I have built over 1200 tube amplifiers by hand, every time I power one up and play through it for the first time its an absolute thrill. You are going to love it!
_________________
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Milkmansound.com
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Benjamin Davidson
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Posted 19 May 2019 9:36 am
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I have two points of caution about the Fender Deluxe family of amp schematics for your build: 1) 22 watt 6V6 breaks up a bit too much in live settings (I'm playing through a reissue Deluxe Reverb currently), 2) There is a lack of direct Mids control that I would want to have if I'm building an amp myself (which is a goal of mine before the end of the year).
First thing I consider is how much headroom and power I'm looking to get out of the amp. 2x6V6s are limiting for the PSG live (I enjoy mine at household levels, but they are easy to drive to breakup). 2x6L6(or KT66) provide a good mid-powered tube amp these days with a good noise floor. 4x6l6 (Twin) gives you the best headroom available.
I would keep any base schematic Black Face Fender circuit, to me that is the best sound for Steel. The twin to me is the classic Steel voice for tube amps. If you can justify having that much power available building a Twin circuit and choosing an output transformer that lets you get 8ohm single 12" isn't too much to consider. The single 15" is even easier because most 15" voiced for steel are normally 4 ohm (standard Twin Output transformer) anyway - and baffles for a 15" offset speaker to clear a Twin chassis are attainable online.
Lastly, are you wanting to purchase a "KIT" or will you be sourcing parts and modifying things a bit? I see that, like my own build, you are wanting to remove the Tremolo and Reverb from the amp. There are things that would be easy to do with the available chassis with those empty holes (i.e. add a mid control or post phase inverter master volume). |
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Bill A. Moore
From:
Silver City, New Mexico, USA
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Posted 19 May 2019 10:23 am
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My "Twin" clone was my first complete build. I used a Weber chassis kit, and built turret boards from the eyelet boards pattern. I sourced all the components, and used just the parts I wanted for my idea of the "best" amp. Since then I've built a couple of smaller amps, (Deluxe Reverb, and 5E3 Deluxe). I don't see any reason why you shouldn't build the amp you want first!
You know what your limits are!
A 15 fits nicely in a Twin cab:
 [/img] |
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Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 25 May 2019 3:22 pm
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Thank you everybody. I have been ruminating over your advice.
Purely by chance a mid 1950s Hammond Chord Organ console fell into my possession. It does not work and isn't worth fixing, IMO.
The amplifier is a push pull built around 6V6s. The power transformer is a beast, and the output transformer is nice as well. The preamp and amp tubes are all good. I can even use the tube sockets.
This is my project. Nice little 20 or so watt amp with a single 12" driver. I have my amp tech friend to keep me from discharging filter caps on my finger.
I'll post a pic when it's all done.
Thanks again for your wisdom and for sharing your experience
Al |
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Brian Hollands
From:
Geneva, FL USA
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Posted 25 May 2019 3:24 pm
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If that Hammond is an AO-43, i think I still have a schematic if you need one.
_________________
'81 Sho-bud LDG, 2 EMCI's |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 26 May 2019 6:11 pm
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| Quote: |
| I have a friend who is an electronics guru, and he’s going to help me every step of the way. |
Is your "guru" an amp designer? What amps has he designed in the past?
FWIW most "amp techs" don't design amps. They know they are not qualified. It takes not only extensive electronics knowledge, but specific knowledge in practical tube circuit DESIGN - not service or repair.
These days most players who buy "tube amp kits" are under-qualified to properly (and safely!!!!) build them). Nearly all amp KITS come with "assembly" instructions - like a plastic model kit - and require the buyer to supply ALL electronics knowledge.
Attempting to build an amp from scratch (or trying to convert some other amp) without proper knowledge is a poor idea IMO.spend a couple years studying electronics theory and SPECIFIC tube amplifier design; make sure you understand how to draw schematics(and understand the underlying math), and be willing to build mockups that will fail as you fine-tune your design.
If you don't want to do to undertake all that research and study you would be well advised to purchase a good amp and save yourself several hundred dollars and an incredible amount of wasted effort IMO.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 27 May 2019 12:45 pm
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Allan,
I've been watching this thread and have decided to make this post. Hope it helps you. Below is a picture of a custom steel-guitar amp that I had built by a real local builder. I told him what I wanted and he delivered it. The amp sounds awesome.
My criteria for him was that I wanted a single channel amp voiced like a Twin Reverb but:
-shiftable Mid's similar to a Peavey Nashville series
-no effects because I use pedals
-fit it all into a Princeton Reverb Cabinet
-utilize an extra Blue Marvel 12" speaker I had
Again, the amp sounds amazing.
The only thing I'm considering changing is to modify it for more power. Currently, it is rated at a little more than 40watts(because we started with a Fender Bassman head I already had)and it breaks up if I'm not in a mic'd situation. But he told me he could easily boost it to about 70 watts by changing the Power Transformer and changing the 6L6's to KT88's(I think). He thinks the new Transformer will add about 2 pounds. I can live with that and I'm hoping that it will make the perfect tube substitute for my Nashville 112 when I decide to play a local club gig without being mic'd. I've heard that the Town and Country amp is rated at about 70watts and performs well.
If you want to talk to him PM me and I'll provide his contact info. Beware, other steelers played this amp before I could pick it up and they wanted one until he told them how much money I had invested in it. Quality parts equals Quality sound. I really think if you'd let him build you one you'd save yourself some headaches and you'd be happy.
He and I were going to start building them for the public but I don't have time to start another business and I just want to play steel.
Again, I hope this helps you as you weigh your options.
_________________
RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 27 May 2019 1:10 pm
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| Marty Broussard wrote: |
My criteria for him was that I wanted a single channel amp voiced like a Twin Reverb but:
-shiftable Mid's similar to a Peavey Nashville series
The only thing I'm considering changing is to modify it for more power. Currently, it is rated at a little more than 40watts(because we started with a Fender Bassman head I already had)and it breaks up if I'm not in a mic'd situation. But he told me he could easily boost it to about 70 watts by changing the Power Transformer and changing the 6L6's to KT88's(I think). |
I don't see the "Mid Shift" control on the panel---?? Methinks this is much harder to do on a tube amp than with ICs. How was it done?
70 watts over 40 is an increase of 2.4db.....just barely noticeable....hmmmmm.....
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 27 May 2019 2:14 pm
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I'm thinking that "Frequency" control is the shift on that amp. The mid-shift is easy enough on a tube amp, just a pot in place of the slope resistor in a standard tone stack.  |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 27 May 2019 6:58 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| I'm thinking that "Frequency" control is the shift on that amp. The mid-shift is easy enough on a tube amp, just a pot in place of the slope resistor in a standard tone stack. |
Yes, you are correct....my bad. Couldn't read the letters with my old eyes!
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 May 2019 10:07 pm
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| Hey Steven, I had good luck with the all-passive mid control from the 70's Peavey Session and LTD amps. Just scale the impedances up for tubes and it works great for a variable mid cut. |
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 28 May 2019 12:34 am
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I’m always shocked when people say 20 tube watts with an efficient speaker like a deluxe is not enough power. Wow. That is loud!!
Scary |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 28 May 2019 5:05 am
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| Josh Yenne wrote: |
I’m always shocked when people say 20 tube watts with an efficient speaker like a deluxe is not enough power. Wow. That is loud!!
Scary |
Well, there are several problems with that type of thinking. First off, speakers are terribly inefficient. Put 20 electrical watts into a speaker, any speaker, and you probably won't get more than 4 or 5 audio watts out. Next, since most tone controls operate on the "cut" principle, you also have to keep in mind that an amp only delivers it's rated output with the tone controls at their maximum settings. Once you start dialing down the bass, middle, and treble to get "your" sound, you can easily lose twenty to forty percent of your available power. (Now, your original 20 watts is cut down further, to only 3 or 4 watts!) Lastly, how much power you actually need is very dependent on what kind of tone you're looking for. Sure, a Vox AC-15 will make your ears bleed if you're cranking treble out, but it positively sucks when it comes to handling the low end of a C6th tuning. Bass is what takes all the wattage. And now you know why 50 watts is often way too much for a lead amp, but most decent bass amps are 400 to 600 watts. 
And oh, did I mention "dynamic range"? That means that, unlike the lead player, you're playing most of the time with a volume pedal only half-way down. So, your resultant 3 or 4 watts winds up being even less, or really kinda wussy for the task at hand  |
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