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Post new topic Clarity
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Author Topic:  Clarity
Al Evans


From:
Austin, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 13 May 2019 4:19 pm    
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A few days ago, I acquired a Rupert Neve DI (RNDI-S, specifically) as part of a deal. Testing it, I plugged my old MSA D10 Classic into it, and plugged it into a channel on my Soundcraft Spirit FX16 mixer. The mixer has Lexicon effects, so I added some plate reverb and delay....

My, oh my. It sounds so good, especially the highs -- "Highs so smooth, you wanna lick 'em" was my immediate response.

My problem is that the Peavey N112 I've been playing through happily for months now sounds, well, a bit muffled by comparison.

I'm scratching my head over what to do about this, and thought that some of y'all have undoubtedly preceded me in the quest for ultimate clarity and smoothness. So, has anybody got suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

--Al Evans
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2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, 1976 MSA D10 Classic, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon
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Godfrey Arthur


From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 13 May 2019 7:20 pm    
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This is a direct box, not a preamp.

It was made to go to mixers that have preamps by converting impedances correct for mixer or recorder inputs.

If using it for your amp, it would act as a load box for driving long cables to keep your pickups at a proper level and not lose frequencies over a long stretch of cable.


Quote:
My problem is that the Peavey N112 I've been playing through happily for months now sounds, well, a bit muffled by comparison.


What did you mean by the above?
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ShoBud The Pro 1
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Steve Sycamore


From:
Sweden
Post  Posted 13 May 2019 11:49 pm    
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They are not inexpensive but both the Telonics integrated PSG amp and the PRE-1000 preamp will give you that clarity, string separation and top end silkiness. That plus a lot of controls to get just the tone you want is why most owners tend to rave about them.

And the built in Telonics DI is one of the very best you are likely to be able to acquire.
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Al Evans


From:
Austin, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 14 May 2019 9:07 am    
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Godfrey Arthur wrote:
This is a direct box, not a preamp.

It was made to go to mixers that have preamps by converting impedances correct for mixer or recorder inputs.


I'm aware of that. But as someone used to say on rec.audio.pro, "everything is a tone control". I wanted to see what difference having transformers/FET amplifiers designed by Rupert Neve might make. Quite a bit, apparently.

Quote:
Quote:
My problem is that the Peavey N112 I've been playing through happily for months now sounds, well, a bit muffled by comparison.


What did you mean by the above?


Let's say you recorded the same performance of the same vocal on two tracks, one of them fed by an SM-57 and one by a really good Neumann U-87. Let's say you EQed the tracks to have as nearly as possible the same frequency response curves. You would still hear a huge difference in the U-87 track, in the clarity and "solidity" of the sound. That's what I'm talking about.

--Al Evans
_________________
2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, 1976 MSA D10 Classic, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon
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Godfrey Arthur


From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 14 May 2019 9:53 am    
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Al Evans wrote:
Let's say you EQed the tracks


Well if I follow correctly, you would benefit from a Neve product using this mic pre to open up what you want to hear out of your Peavey using most any type mic.

But it isn't inexpensive. neither is your DI actually.


Neve 1073

Granted everything is a tone device but some are limited like a DI. The DI you have would really open things up going through a 1073, or even without the DI, a mic through the pre would produce delicious lickable tones most never hear unless they are in a studio with a classic Neve console.

And your Peavey would open up because of the pre.
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ShoBud The Pro 1
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Al Evans


From:
Austin, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 15 May 2019 8:19 am    
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Godfrey Arthur wrote:

[...Neve 1073...]

And your Peavey would open up because of the pre.


Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy ...And so would my wallet. And lie there on the floor, bleeding....

But back in reality, the rest of my signal chain is a Soundcraft preamp set at about 50 dB of input gain, plus the summing bus and amplification (channel fader a little below unit gain), into a pair of Mackie SRM-350s (Version 1). Decent, not spectacular, but apparently better than an N112.

I think I'll try another run-of-the-mill mixer I have around into spare SRM-350 (I've got a couple extras; they're great cheap sound-making devices). And see what happens. If that works as well, I can get one of those little Soundcraft Notepad FX mixers (cheap, and probably has good preamps), and use that.

But the older I get, the longer it takes to get around to these things.

--Al Evans
_________________
2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, 1976 MSA D10 Classic, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon
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Godfrey Arthur


From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 15 May 2019 9:19 am    
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Al Evans wrote:
Godfrey Arthur wrote:

[...Neve 1073...]

And your Peavey would open up because of the pre.


Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy ...And so would my wallet. And lie there on the floor, bleeding....

But back in reality, the rest of my signal chain is a Soundcraft preamp set at about 50 dB of input gain, plus the summing bus and amplification (channel fader a little below unit gain), into a pair of Mackie SRM-350s (Version 1). Decent, not spectacular, but apparently better than an N112.

I think I'll try another run-of-the-mill mixer I have around into spare SRM-350 (I've got a couple extras; they're great cheap sound-making devices). And see what happens. If that works as well, I can get one of those little Soundcraft Notepad FX mixers (cheap, and probably has good preamps), and use that.

But the older I get, the longer it takes to get around to these things.

--Al Evans


Soundcraft makes decent mixers. Some budget studios used them. Yes Neve is through the roof on their prices. And I don't see the prices going down on the vintage console re-rack units.

It's really all about the mic pres in a mixer.

Yup, age has its priorities. Cool
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ShoBud The Pro 1
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Al Evans


From:
Austin, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 29 May 2019 5:16 am    
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Update...

I've switched from the Peavey N112 I was using on the setup I mainly use for practice and playing to the Rupert Neve DI, a Soundcraft Notepad 8FX mixer, and a version 1 Mackie SRM-350 powered speaker. To my ears, the sound is great, especially from the standpoint of clarity and string separation.




The little Soundcraft mixer has surprisingly good preamps and Lexicon reverb (plus delay and chorus). It also has a built-in high-impedance input, which I tried out for a few days before I switched to the RNDI. The DI had the same effect on the trebles as I described before, like the difference between good and astonishingly smooth.

Some time in the (hopefully near) future, a friend with some of the best ears I know of has promised to bring by his little QSC K8.2 powered speaker and a Fire-Eye Dee-Eye for a comparison test. I'll be interested to see how the QSC handles the lowest note on the C6th neck, because it weighs less than 30 pounds.

--Al Evans
_________________
2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, 1976 MSA D10 Classic, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon
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