| Visit Our Catalog at SteelGuitarShopper.com |

Post new topic JBL D-130. What's the odds of blowing one, really?
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  JBL D-130. What's the odds of blowing one, really?
George Kimery


From:
Limestone, TN, USA
Post  Posted 4 May 2019 1:15 pm    
Reply with quote

I have a Stereo Steel with closed back cabinets, both loaded with JBL-D130's. I keep reading that they were designed to only handle 60 watts or so. I know the volume of a speaker has a lot to do with it's efficency rating. I have read that some speakers are only 5% efficient and others may be as high as 25%. When I had a Twin Reverb back in the 70's, it came with two JBL's and I think it was an 85 watt amp. I was young and played with some really loud bands. I never blew a speaker. My Stereo Steel has two 350 power amps and came with JBL D-130 speakers. GD Walker has been supplying these speakers for hundreds of his Stereo Steel amps for years. I think GD knows his stuff,and would not have used these speakers if he thought they would blow easily. The band's I play in now are not that loud, but I am wondering what is the threshold you have to hit to blow a D-130. I really like the speakers and don't want to blow one. If I am pushing too hard, would I get any warning like distortion.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Cartwright Thompson


Post  Posted 4 May 2019 1:52 pm    
Reply with quote

Everybody gets up in arms about the power handling of D series JBL’s. I’ve been punishing them for 30 years and have never blown one. You can push them pretty hard and they won’t mind it. Don’t peg it and hit your splat pedal , that might cause damage but you’d be surprised what they will take. They say that an original cone D-130 is only rated at about 60 watts but experience has taught me that if you’re carefull, they will take a lot more. I’ve been running a D-130 in an 80 watt amp, playing with some very loud bands, with no problems.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Donny Hinson


From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 4 May 2019 5:03 pm    
Reply with quote

I'll preface this with saying that I'm not an electrical engineer. My knowledge is mostly based on experience and my own research.

That said, steelers seldom use more than 30-40 watts when they play. The three big issues for speaker protection and longevity are:

1.) Playing using distortion - If you jam continuous distortion through a speaker, you can blow that speaker using an amp with a rating far less than that of the speaker. Yes, when you crank up the distortion, it's possible to fry a 60-watt speaker with a 25-watt amp! Been there, done that.

2.) The speaker cabinet design - a speaker will blow more easily in an open-back (non-dampened) cabinet because there will be more cone excursion for a given input.

3.) The programming - Chords and fat, extended bass tones take far more power to reproduce. The "average" steeler doesn't play with heavy programming. As an example, Chalker's programming was a lot more intense than Lloyd's or Buddy's.

With all that said, yes...you can be perfectly safe using two 60-watt speakers with a 250-watt amp. And, 60-watt speakers can handle more than 60-watts if the duration of that excess power is clean, and limited (time-wise). Luckily, we steelers mostly play with no distortion, and we're not "windmilling" chords at max volume. But as with most things in life, if you push it too hard, or do something you shouldn't, $#!& can happen. Laughing
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
David Higginbotham


From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
Post  Posted 4 May 2019 7:45 pm    
Reply with quote

I agree with the previous replies. But the D-130’s provided with the Walker amps have been re-coned with heavier cones and voice coils making them rated in the 300 watt capability. They aren’t original. Only the magnets used.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
George Kimery


From:
Limestone, TN, USA
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 5:50 am     JBL-D130: Whats the risk of blowing it, really?
Reply with quote

Thanks for all the insight. I knew GD re-coned them to 4 ohms, but didn't know about the heavier cone and voice coil. One of the speakers is 8 ohm so I am assuming it is original. I need the 8 ohm for my 100 watt Katana head (which I run at 50 watts) so it looks like I am good to go there. Most places I play don't have room for two speakers, so I seldom get to use both speakers. I will be using the re-coned 4 ohm with my Evans and Stereo Steel, the 8 ohm with my Katana back up amp,and the 4 and the 8 on the rare occasions I use two speakers. I just have to bump the volume up a little on the 8 ohm. I think I'm good to go.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tom Wolverton


From:
San Diego, CA
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 8:01 am    
Reply with quote

Donny’s point #1 is true, based on my experience. I blew out my D130f at a gig. I was running it with a Showman head. But I was playing about 25% of the songs with lap steel and distortion. I think that’s what killed it.
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tom Dillon


From:
La Mesa, California, USA
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 8:41 am    
Reply with quote

George, I asked this same question to GD Walker a while ago. This is what he said (paraphrasing):

- The actual JBL baskets used for his Stereo Steel cabs were D-130's.

- JBL 15 baskets up until 1980 were all made up of the same frame and magnet, but with different voice coils on different models. The coils changed/improved over time.

- The JBL's he used were all re-coned to a higher wattage spec. He said I could consider them as K130's.

- When mounted in his ported closed cabinets, those speakers when used with his amps can handle anything all the way through the low notes on C6.
_________________
Tom Dillon

MSA Legend D10, LDG, On-Trak, Stereo Steel, Milkman H&H, Sarno, fiddles
www.barbwirecountry.com


Last edited by Tom Dillon on 14 May 2019 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
George Kimery


From:
Limestone, TN, USA
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 8:52 am     JBL D-130. What's the odds of blowing one, really?
Reply with quote

A little off subject, but I have been thinking about stacking my two Walker cabinets to get around my space limitation problem. I have held off because the bottom cabinet will have more bass due to the coupling effect, and I also have been wondering about phase cancellation with them stacked and close together. I could stack them on an amp stand to get a better balance. I am going to try it at home first, and then on a gig. No harm in trying. I just love to experiment.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Oakdale, California
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 9:50 am    
Reply with quote

Stacking them was my first thought. You can get an isolation pad like some bass players use to counteract the coupling issue. As far as the phase cancellation, just make sure the hot and ground wires go to the same terminals on the speaker and the same at the plug that goes to the amp. I don't know if having 2 speakers at different ohm ratings would cause phase problems though.
_________________
CLICK HERE to visit my website with Mickey Adams videos.

Mullen SD12 3p/4k, Carter D10 9p/9k, Peavey Nashville 400 with a BW1502-4, Hilton VP, Tech 21 Roto Choir, Wampler Euphoria, EH Mel9, Zoom MS50G
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dave Mudgett


From:
Central Pennsylvania
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 10:18 am    
Reply with quote

Well, the odds are much greater than 0%, that's for sure. Laughing

I blew an original JBL D-130 powered by a blackface Deluxe Reverb (in a separate cab) playing clean pedal steel with a pretty moderate volume band at the Bullfrog Brewery in Williamsport, PA, not a particularly loud venue at all. It sounded great right up to the minute it blew, no warning, it just went silent and I scrambled to shut the amp down to avoid risking a no-load situation. Indeed, the voice coil had opened up.

I also blew a D-120 some years earlier. That was guitar with a rockabilly band, not particularly distorted but louder. But beyond that, I've seen a lot of JBLs blown by others also. I personally love them, and my main amp steel amp right now is a silverface Deluxe Reverb with an original-cone D-120F. So far so good, and I have a couple of spares.

The other thing is that you don't know what a 50-year old JBL had already been through before you got it, not to mention the deterioration that any speaker endures simply from age.

I am an electrical engineer by training, and I agree with pretty much everything Donny stated.

1. High volume, near-square waves with a duty-cycle approaching 100% are real rough on speakers. The cones are at the limit of excursion most of the time and the impulse created by being forced to constantly change direction as close to instantly as they can go creates a lot of heat. Smooth sine wave program is much easier to handle.

2. The D-130 that blew was in a totally open-back cab, the D-120 that blew was in a, you guessed it, Deluxe Reverb with an open-back cab. It doesn't take a big cone excursion to mess things up. The speaker may not blow, but if it pulls it sufficiently far out to get cone rub, it's pretty much toast anyway.

3. And program material does matter. I do try to play fairly big, fat chords quite a bit - I can hear the speakers protest sometimes. You can be going along with single notes or double-stops on higher strings at a pretty good volume, but if you double-down with a fat chord on lower strings, it is often noticeable. I think that is precisely when it's nice to have a big honkin' speaker like a Black Widow, EVM, or something like that.

So you can believe that I try to be careful not to push the original JBLs I have left too hard. But I assume that if I continue to play them regularly, they eventually will fail and need a recone.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
George Kimery


From:
Limestone, TN, USA
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 11:20 am     JBL D-130. What's the odds of blowing one, really?
Reply with quote

Richard, I will be playing stereo with a left and right channel and two separate power amps. Separate channels and power amps for each speaker. Should this make the phase cancellation a non-issue? i did check with GD Walker on using one 4 ohm and one 8 ohm speakers. He said no problem, but would have to bump up the volume slightly on the 8 ohm to balance things out.

Dave,it appears like the one's you blew were originals, not re-coned for higher wattage by Walker.My 4 ohm is original Stereo Steel but I swapped out the other one with an 8 ohm, which may not be re-coned for higher wattage.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Steve Hinson


From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 11:56 am    
Reply with quote

I don't worry about blowing up JBLs anymore...

I'm using the Eminence EPS-15C...

Lighter and sounds the same to my ears...

SH
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 11:58 am    
Reply with quote

A survey of current owners of Peavey Sessions and LTDs from the '70s that were factory-equipped with D-130s should help answer the original question. Many, if not most of 'em, blew out. Mine did.

How many here have a Session or LTD with a factory original, un-reconed, D-130?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dave Mudgett


From:
Central Pennsylvania
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 5:03 pm    
Reply with quote

Quote:
Dave,it appears like the one's you blew were originals, not re-coned for higher wattage by Walker.My 4 ohm is original Stereo Steel but I swapped out the other one with an 8 ohm, which may not be re-coned for higher wattage.

Definitely - all my JBLs have had original cones. I bought an assortment of them 20+ years ago. 2 down, several left before they're gone. I guess I'll eventually get re-cone kits. But I sorta feel like Steve H. that some of the lighter replacement speakers sound excellent. I haven't tried the Eminence EPS-15C yet, but I did get to try an EPS-12C in someone else's amp, sounded very good.

I bought a few of the TC Furlong 12" 8 Ohm speakers. I tried one, sounded very good in my Deluxe, but I need to break it in before I take it out to a gig, it's pretty bright out of the gate. Nice weight too.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Neff


From:
Athens, GA
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 7:10 pm    
Reply with quote

I've used D130s and K130s for years, and have recently reconed 3 K120s with D120F drop in kits from Soundspeakerrepair.com I've had one in my Deluxe Reverb for a couple months, and last night I brought it to gig having underestimated the volume situation - steel and overdriven guitar. It held up for the night, but today its crackling with some frequencies. I just noticed some gaps around the dust cap, so reglued, and waiting/hoping its the fix.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
George Kimery


From:
Limestone, TN, USA
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 7:23 pm     JBL D-130. What's the odds of blowing one, really?
Reply with quote

Dave, I went through a Telonics 12", the Emminence that Tommy White recommended, a Paul Franklin PF-350, and a Travis Toy TT-12. All of them sounded good, but I didn't think any of them sounded as good as my D-130's. The eps 15c mentioned by Steve sounds like a great choice. If I blow one of my D-130's, I will probably give one a try or a Peavey 1501-4, which is supposed to be a direct replacement for a D-130. I did just make arrangements to buy back the original 4 ohm D-130 that was in my Stereo Steel cabinet so that I get back to the original speaker that came in it. The 8 ohm will go into a separate cabinet for my Katana head.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dave Mudgett


From:
Central Pennsylvania
Post  Posted 5 May 2019 8:01 pm    
Reply with quote

I agree that old JBLs are pretty special, especially in a lower-power amp like a Deluxe Reverb, where putting in a JBL sort of eliminates the advantage of taking a light amp. But they sound so good that I do it anyway.

Quote:
I've had one in my Deluxe Reverb for a couple months, and last night I brought it to gig having underestimated the volume situation - steel and overdriven guitar.

Yeah, I have to look out for that too. I sometimes throw my Session 400 (cut down for 12" Telonics speaker) as a backup to be (hopefully) left in the car if I'm not sure about where the stage volume will be. Actually, that cut-down Session 400 with the Telonics weighs about the same as the Deluxe Reverb.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Pete Burak


From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 6 May 2019 6:21 pm    
Reply with quote

I have also never heard of any regularly gigging Steel player on this Forum or in real life blowing a Transformer by using the wrong Ohm Speaker, in any Amp.
fwiw, I did hear a Bass player blow a speaker on a gig once, and luckily it was during the last set... sound was still coming out, and we were laughing very hard at the distorto tone!
To my ear the Peavey direct replacement for JBL D130 sounds alot more treble-ee than a JBL D-130. I have them here side by side with a Walker Stero Steel.
Which brings up another point... I have never had to turn my Walker rig up past 12 o'clock on the Master Volume.
I usually run all of the volume knobs around 9'0clock (Gain, Volume, Master). I'm guessing half volume is working with 100Watts, and I use a Volume pedal which lowers the signal level again. Those things are powerful! But I have never blown a speaker on a gig.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Joe Alterio


From:
Irvington, Indiana
Post  Posted 7 May 2019 5:02 pm    
Reply with quote

I had a K130 in my Session 400, which "supposedly" had an even higher wattage handling than the D130. Weekly gigs and regular practices meant a recone every 2 to 3 months. Ted Weber told me that the JBLs couldn't handle anything close to 100 watts, let alone what the Peavey was able to crank out. Mike Brown, too, has said that the whole reason the BWs were created was because of the JBLs blowing on folks.

I eventually gave up and went to a Black Widow, but I hardly ever use that amp because I really don't like the tone from the BW. And I have a Steel King and a Vibrosonic that sound amazing!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jack Stoner


From:
Inverness, Fl
Post  Posted 8 May 2019 2:26 am    
Reply with quote

Steve Hinson nailed it with the EPS-15C. I did field testing of the EPS-15C for Eminence. The first time I tried it my impression was "this sounds like the JBL K-130 I had in a Fender Twin Reverb".
_________________
Franklin D-10, Hilton VP, POD X3, MatchBro, Steelaire Rack, EPS-15C, Cakewalk (Sonar) by BandLab and Studio One Pro V4.5 DAWs, MOTU 4pre
R.O.P.E. Member
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post  Posted 8 May 2019 3:04 am    
Reply with quote

Dave Mudgett wrote:
Well, the odds are much greater than 0%, that's for sure. Laughing



HA ! I used one ( D 130) in a twin reverb for years . maybe 10 years in it went belly up. But in all fairness that was hundreds of double duty gigs , many hundreds ! It was the only amp I owned so it was getting an immense workout.

But, it did blow. Actually it's the only speaker I have ever blown in my entire 45 + years of playing !

For whatever that's worth. Sad
_________________
<b>Steel Guitar music here >>> http://www.tprior.com/five.htm</b>

Emmons Steels, Fender Telecasters
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Steve Spitz


From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
Post  Posted 13 May 2019 5:35 pm    
Reply with quote

The only one I ever had a problem with was destroyed by FedEx.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mike Brown


From:
Meridian, Mississippi USA
Post  Posted 14 May 2019 5:48 am     Speakers in general
Reply with quote

Speakers can fail/blow under the right circumstances................any brand, any model.
View user's profile Send private message
Brett Lanier


From:
Vermont
Post  Posted 14 May 2019 10:10 am    
Reply with quote

Most of the time what happens with a JBL is that you get a little coil rub on the magnet. The speaker isn't blown but it'll need a recone when that happens. I've been through a ton of JBL's... But, they are by far my favorite speaker for steel so I keep using them.
Now that I have a better idea of what they can handle, i replace them less often.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mike Vallandigham


From:
Martinez, CA
Post  Posted 14 May 2019 10:29 am    
Reply with quote

I bought a 1960 Vibrosonic Amp that had the correct JBL D-130 (not the D-130F)

The seller told me the speaker was correct, but not orig. to the amp.

I took off the grille/baffle board for a little cleaning/inspection and I found huge chunks of JBL Aluminum duct cap pieces down between the baffle and the grille cloth.

So someone really blew the s**t out of one at some point.

This was the non "F" version, so a little less robust.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  
Please review our Forum Rules and Policies
Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction, and steel guitar accessories
www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

The Steel Guitar Forum
148 S. Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Support This Forum



BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles for Band-in-a-Box
by Jim Baron