E s on left

Roger Monroe · From: Nebraska, USA

What is this? left knee left to get E ?..E left knee C right knee ?
_________________
Mullen SD 10, Rittenberry SD 10, Williams S10 Wpad, KG Amp, Fender Passport Venue , Fender Steel King, Bose SP1 Pro

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Roger,

When someone says a pedal steel has "Es on the left", they usually mean that both the E=>F and E=>Eb changes on strings 4 & 8 are on left knee levers. For Emmons setup (pedal order ABC, left-to-right), this is usually E=>F on LKL and E=>Eb on LKR. For Day setup (CBA), this is usually reversed, i.e., E=>F on LKR, E=>Eb on LKL. [edited to correct typo]

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Corollary #1: if you have "Es on the right" they can be either way round.

Corollary #2: you can have the raise and lower on different knees.

Every permutation is in use somewhere, by someone.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Left knee left to raise E to F.
Left knee right to lower E to Eb.
If you have the Emmons setup and not the Day setup.
Erv

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Like Dave says...
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Charley Bond · From: Inola, OK, USA

Like Dave says... I like the Day Way myself, always have.... It is more ergonomically correct.
_________________
Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family

Kevin Fix · From: Michigan, USA

"Es" on the left here. Smile

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

I have the E's lower on the RKR
The E's raise on the LKL

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

I've also got my E's raising on my lkl and my E's lowering on my rkl left over from my old Sho-Bud days.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.

Sean Borton · From: Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada

I play the Emmons setup (E's on the Left)... LKL Raise and LKR Lower. However, every steel player I know in my area is setup LKL Raise and RKL Lower. Most don't understand my setup at all Smile

I suspect this is because I live in the land of Wayne Link and LINKON steel guitars. Everyone here (other than me) plays a LINKON or started on one... and Waynes standard setup is RKL Lower.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

This is RIGHT...

My E's have LEFT the building.

ðŸƒ ðŸ‘ˆ (Buddy E)

Day player:

E lowers on LKL
E raises on LKR
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

Most of my steels are Es on the left. Have one older MSA Classic D10 with 8x2 and those 2 Es are on the right.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

The location of these levers has been discussed a lot and always will be.

Es lowering on RKL is a tradition dating from the early days of levers. The first one to appear, round about when dinosaurs still roamed Tennessee, lowered string 8 (not string 4 at this stage) and string 2. It needed to move left as it was pulling on a crank against the spring that held the changer fingers in the raised position; and the right leg was deemed less busy than the left - so RKL it was.

When guitar mechanisms improved so that they could raise and lower both Es, three camps emerged - both on the left knee, both on the right, and split between the two. Each has its merits.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

There have indeed been a lot of discussions on the merits of different placements of the E=>F and E=>Eb levers. But IMO, if you want to get maximum bang for your time, read this thread, paying particular attention to the interchange between Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin, as well as others: https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=29594

This thread tends to get lost in the bowels of the forum, so I consider it, more or less, a public duty to raise its profile periodically.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Iâ€™ve never noticed a difference in the quality of musicianship between Day and Emmons players, nor have I observed any differences based on specific knee lever configurations.

Personally, I donâ€™t think there are any clear-cut, universal ergonomic benefits to any of the more common set ups. Each have their advantages and disadvantages. It usually boils down to which set-up one is initially exposed unless their are anatomical challenges present.

Jeremy Threlfall · From: now in Western Australia

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

When I got my first guitar with knee levers 2009, It was a MSA S10. Pedals set up Day Setup, C-B-A, LKL D lever Lower 4-8, LKR F lever raise 4-8 and it worked great. B pedal LKL Lower 4-8 7th chord. A pedal LKR raise 4-8, Up 3 frets 1 chord passing lick.

December 2017 I went to a GFI S12 U. It is Day Setup pedals C-B-A, The levers are, Raise 4-8 F RKL, Lower 4-8 D RKR, This leaves LKR position open for B6 pedals. It took reprograming of my memory about 4 months. But now it happens without thought.

It only makes a difference now if I set down at my friend's steel, With E's on LK. I have to think to much, To play smooth.

Per Berner · From: SkÃ¶vde, Sweden

This is my summary view:

1. Having the two E levers on the same knee is kind of the logical way to do it...

2. ...but having them on different knees makes it a little easier to go from F to Eb (or the opposite way) in one smooth move â€“Â if they are on the same knee, there will be a tiny pause in the middle as you move from one lever to the other.

Both ways are fine; my sometimes unreliable muscle memory seems to prefer having them on the same knee.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I split them for the reason Per gives, to get a fluid transition without a flat spot.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

this conversation is on going. Obviously personal preference plays a big role. Years back Buddy commented about this subject ( a bunch of us in St Louis) , splitting the E's, and he reminded us that by moving things around, specifically splitting the E's, dedicating a lever here or a lever there, you can loose another opportunity which may be of significant interest which goes along with another lever or Ped. It's not right or wrong, it's personal.

Early on I had split E's, but easily 10 or more years ago I moved them both to the left side, never looked back. That smooth transition is a thing of the past. Nobody knew, nobody cared, including me ! Very Happy

_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

The reason I value the smooth transition is that in the A/F position I can drop the third of the chord (or squeeze up to it) just as in pedals up (lower string six) or pedals down (A pedal). It makes the A/F as expressive as the other positons.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

manny escobar · From: portsmouth,r.i. usa

John Demaille, We have something in common.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I would be lost without the A/F combination.
Erv

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Manny, me too. I play Day setup so the Es raise on LKR - but the principle's the same.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

I changed after 45 years of playing with the E's lowered on RKL as my first Sho Bud steels were set up.
I'd been considering making that change for the last few years. When I got the Promat PP with the Emmons set up I had to learn it that way. Was confusing at first going between that and my other steels.
Now I've converted all mine too the Emmons way and it didn't take long to get used to playing that way. My playing ain't no better or worse but it is a more natural way to play.

The best thing is that before I had the 2nd string half stop on my LKR which is difficult to get right while using pedals with that foot. Now have moved the half stops to the RKL and find it much better there. Using the half stop with the rental changes in the volume pedal is less trouble than when wacking up or down on a pitch changing pedal.
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic