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Topic: Mica vs. Lacquer...a different question |
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 9:53 am |
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| A forum search will turn up discussions of comparisons between these materials over the years but my question is different (I think--I don't recall this coming up)----is a natural finish with nice figured wood riskier than mica over non-ornamental wood (rock maple or whatever else is usually used) regarding stability of the wood as pertains to warping, shrinking, etc? Is highly figured wood inherently more prone to instability because of the very attributes of its grain that make it look so good? |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 10:27 am
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Can't answer as a wood specialist, however my 11 year old laquer finished maple Carter S12 has been subjected to cold damp conditions, direct sunlight, and high summer temps in a vehicle..... so far it has only darkened to a even more beautiful finish. I do understand that rapid warming of a guitar subjected to freezing temps can cause cracking of the finish, so I alway let the case and guitar warm up together.
However dropping your bar on it is quite another thing :-)
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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com
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Curt Langston
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 10:29 am
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| Quote: |
| Is highly figured wood inherently more prone to instability because of the very attributes of its grain that make it look so good? |
Yes it is Jon. You have hit on a very good point. Consider GFI's reason for the dieboard. (incorrectly termed "plywood")
Those in the know will agree that dieboard is much more stable, with more resonance, as well as being stronger than birdseye maple.
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I'd rather be opinionated, than apathetic!
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 10:43 am
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| Jon:My guess is that if the wood is dried correctly that it shouldn't be a problem,I think that it has to be air dried for many years.I also think that the GFI would bring out different frequencies than maple,Not more resonance ,just different.This is just my guess. |
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A. J. Schobert
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio,
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 12:24 pm
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| I have a little wood crafting experiance, (in my opinion) as long as the guitar is built properly you should have years of enjoyment, I have seen very old instruments there finishes are very "sound" My old sho-bud only has scratches but the laminate is solid. Now temperatures can have an impact but if you take care of your finish and baby it you should get years of enjoyment, somebody mentioned that his lacquer fadded to a more beutifull shade this is true and the result I'm sure is a gorgeous finish. I love laquer finishes myself personally, I didn't get a laquer finish this time on my new guitar since I really didn't want to worry about accidently scratching it (not to say it won't happen anyway)and the cost but they are beutiful. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 1:09 pm
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The preferences between mica and lacquered guitars is like the difference between Mounds and Almond Joy. Somedays the lacquered guitars look good to me and other days the sharp, clean lines of a mica guitar are very appealing. A person really needs several of each! 
Erv |
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Tony Smart
From:
Harlow. Essex. England
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 1:26 pm
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Wood experts - what's the difference between ply and dieboard?
Tony |
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Mike Ester
From:
New Braunfels, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 2:01 pm
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| I like lacquer, but I'm always afraid of ruining it. Hence, my decision to go mica. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 2:01 pm
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Just look at the greatest violins in history and you will see beautiful figure in the maple. If these masters who made these ever thought that the figure in the wood would make for an instrument that would warp or not sound as good as plain unfigured maple then you would see just ordinary looking backs and sides as this wood is easily found.
Figured maple is more expensive and harder to come by. The time and cost of applying a finish to highlight the wood adds quite a bit to the cost of the guitar. That is a better reason why some builders don't use it. Easier to just glue on some plastic. You will notice that the rather expensive and sought after Bigsby guitars are made of figured maple. Many old Sho Buds and MSA and others are also.
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 2:19 pm
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Plywood is generally a cheap wood, such as pine. It's made up of 3-5 layers, and it usually contains voids and knots. Die-board is made from much harder wood, such as hard-rock maple. It has more (thinner) plies, and contains no voids or knots. It's heavier, far more rigid, and much stronger and resistant to warping than ordinary plywood.
Addendum...from an email I sent to Tony...
Many years ago, a friend gave me a piece of heavy dieboard, about 3' x 5'. It was about 1 1/4" thick, and weighed about 90 pounds! It has 21 plies, plus a thin veneer on both sides. As I had no other use for it at the time, I made a workbench-top out of it. It's so hard, it's nearly impossible to drive a nail into it, and needless to say, in over 20 years there's been no warping or sagging, despite all the junk and tools I pile on it. I imagine that piece of wood would cost a couple hundred dollars at today's prices. [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 23 March 2006 at 05:15 PM.] |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 5:11 pm
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Having one of each, I can say that the dieboard/mica seems to be for more durable than the maple/lacquer, but I think the maple lacquer one sounds better.
I prefer to use the dieboard/mica one for playing outdoors.
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My web site
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 5:30 pm
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But Mike, that's only important if you care about TONE!!!!  |
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MARK GILES
From:
HAMILTON, TEXAS
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 6:05 pm
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| The question was about the stability of figured woods. Stability of the wood is due more to the cut of the wood rather than the amount of figure in the wood. A flat sawn board is more unstable than a quarter sawn board. ALL wood moves depending on the amount of moisture it absorbs or gives up. No amount of time or finish will stop this, it will only slow the process down. Fiddles, acoustic guitars, mandolins, etc., are made with quarter sawn wood, hence less warpage and movement. Steels with mica also move, you just may not see the effects of it as readily. |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 6:29 pm
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Stradavarious had trouble finding good formica trees, so he was forced to use the easier to find wooden trees. Things were rough in 1799, and then there was the constant danger of Nauga attacks near the great forests. Later these little rascals were hunted down and killed for their hides. The hides were later used to make pads for LDG models.
(where's my coffee?) |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 8:49 pm
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Oh Bobbe..
What about those Tuppers?
When they go out to dinner, whatsa...
EJL |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 9:18 pm
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| Let's not forget that in the '60's the Sparkle Naugas were hunted almost to extinction by Kustom. |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 10:04 pm
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You are correct Skip!
Skip, My sec. said I got an e-mail from you today and she accidentally erased it, send me another one so I don't have to fire her!
Bobbster, |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 10:05 pm
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Mark Giles, appreciated your input on wood here!
Bobbe |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 10:30 pm
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Bobbe, it wasn't me.. I didn't send you an email today.
But I will if you'd like... |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 11:06 pm
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| Then do I fire her or not? |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 11:26 pm
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Well... if she bears any resemblance to the other gals I've seen on your site, I'd say keep her.
What the hey... keep her anyway. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 11:27 pm
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Bobbe, its not her fault, its Skips fault for not sending the email! Don't be so tough on your hired help.
Jerry |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 23 Mar 2006 11:27 pm
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| Bobbe you bin out in the sun too long!! |
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Alan Harrison
From:
Murfreesboro Tennessee, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2006 4:18 am
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| Don't Blame the Bobbster, he has altitude poisioning, I guess from flying to high...Gee, I hope the spelling is ok on this! |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2006 4:40 am
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Mark. In regards to using quarter sawn wood for guitars, vintage Fender guitars never used quartersawn. All the necks and bodies are just plain slab sawn pieces. Conventional lumber processing only yields a couple of boards from each log that are cut on the quarter and those are always culled out for speciality sales at much higher prices. Recently, Fender has offered a custom model guitar with a quarter sawn neck at a much higher price point.
As for using slab sawn wood for a Fender style or even for a steel guitar neck/body, if the piece of wood is slabbed with the grain running nicely from side to side then you have a much more stable piece of wood than one with the grain running diagonal. Also the tighter the grain pattern the stronger the piece will be.
Most of your quarter sawn wood on acoustic instruments is found in the top for sure and as quartered as you can get in the back. |
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