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Topic: Webb 614-E Speaker 4-0hm or 8-ohm |
Paul Hutzler
From: Seattle, Wa
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 11:29 am
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I have a Webb 614-E that needs a new speaker. I have a 4-ohm JBL K130 in it now. I was thinking of having it reconed and I've read that 8-ohm speakers fare better than 4-ohm speakers with the Webb 614. Can a knowledgeable Webb owner advise please?
1. When I recone my 4-ohm JBL K130, should I have it converted into an 8-ohm or should I leave it as a 4-ohm?
2. What is the negative side if any to using an 8-ohm as opposed to a 4-ohm with this amp? _________________ Carter S-10, Shobud D-10, Shobud Pro II D-10, Supro 8 String Lap Steel, Regal Black Lightening Dobro, and Excel D-10 with 10 pickups one for each string, one string for each amp |
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Godfrey Arthur
From: 3rd Rock
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 11:53 am
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That amp now comes with a JBL E130 which handles 150 watts for that 225 watt Webb.
The JBL K130 is designed for 125 watts.
Don't know what your amp's speaker impedance is but if you have a 4 ohm then the amp may be 4 ohms.
You say that you've read that the 8 ohm fares better in the 614. Using the 8 ohm lowers the amount of available amp power when using 8 ohms vs 4 ohms.
But will your amp like the 8 ohm load?
Halving the impedance doubles the power output.
Doubling the impedance halves the power output.
And will you like the tone and response of the 8 ohm vs the 4 ohm?
Might want to ask the amp maker.
Perhaps you may need 2 speakers to handle the load of your playing that amp which I think the maker suggests.
225 watts RMS as Webb amp claims for the 614-E is a lot of watts. A single speaker would have a tough time coping with bursts of power.
_________________ ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7
Last edited by Godfrey Arthur on 9 Jan 2019 12:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Jerry Overstreet
From: Louisville Ky
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 11:56 am
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Keep in mind that there are no original JBL K model re-cone kits available any longer. If it were my speaker I wouldn't re-cone it unless it's rubbing or otherwise going bad.
Although I've read some guitar gear heads that say an 8 ohm speaker is smoother, I have no personal preference. I've had both 4 & 8 ohm JBL's that sound just fine.
'80's era Webb 6-14's were just over 200W output and used 4 ohm speakers.
You would probably not notice much difference between the 4 & 8 ohms rating, the 8 taking just a tad more power to = the same vol. as the 4. You would certainly notice a difference between an original JBL speaker and and aftermarket re-cone kit though.
I would prefer to keep them original as long as they are working and sounding good. |
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Paul Hutzler
From: Seattle, Wa
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 12:41 pm
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I'm reconing the speaker because it is worn out and produces a fuzzy / distortion sound. _________________ Carter S-10, Shobud D-10, Shobud Pro II D-10, Supro 8 String Lap Steel, Regal Black Lightening Dobro, and Excel D-10 with 10 pickups one for each string, one string for each amp |
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Paul Hutzler
From: Seattle, Wa
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 12:44 pm
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"But will your amp like the 8 ohm load?"
I don't understand, do you mean "will my amp be damaged by an 8 ohm load?" or do you mean "will my amp and speaker sound any good?"
Thank you everyone for your replies. _________________ Carter S-10, Shobud D-10, Shobud Pro II D-10, Supro 8 String Lap Steel, Regal Black Lightening Dobro, and Excel D-10 with 10 pickups one for each string, one string for each amp |
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Jerry Overstreet
From: Louisville Ky
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 12:46 pm
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I see. I don't see any advantage either way. As stated before, the 8Ω will be a bit less volume that the 4 at the same setting. If you're keeping it in the 6-14, there's plenty of power available. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From: 3rd Rock
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 12:56 pm
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Paul Hutzler wrote: |
"But will your amp like the 8 ohm load?"
I don't understand, do you mean "will my amp be damaged by an 8 ohm load?" or do you mean "will my amp and speaker sound any good?"
Thank you everyone for your replies. |
Both.
Things will change for the amp (somewhat) and for your ears. I guess it would depend on how hard you drive your amp and what you like to hear out of it.
Best to ask the amp maker and ask his take.
But a sturdier speaker might help out as in the JBL E series vs the K if you are set on having a single 15".
Otherwise perhaps running an extension cab to spread out the load from the amp running more than one speaker may help the longevity of the speaker issue.
More gear to carry though.
SRV used to burn up amps just from the way he played his guitar getting those gut wrenching string bends.
_________________ ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Paul Hutzler
From: Seattle, Wa
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 1:04 pm
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[quote="Godfrey Arthur"]
Paul Hutzler wrote: |
Things will change for the amp (somewhat) and for your ears. I guess it would depend on how hard you drive your amp and what you like to hear out of it.
Best to ask the amp maker and ask his take.
] |
Thanks for the reply, Godfrey. Don't think I'll be running 2 cabs but I understand your logic. Cheers. _________________ Carter S-10, Shobud D-10, Shobud Pro II D-10, Supro 8 String Lap Steel, Regal Black Lightening Dobro, and Excel D-10 with 10 pickups one for each string, one string for each amp |
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Dave Diehl
From: Mechanicsville, MD, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 2:30 pm
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My Webb's have the E130-4 in them. Godfrey was talking around this point but, putting an 8 ohm speaker in there will cause the amp to run a little cooler because it's not pushing as many watts out to the speaker... 4 ohm is less resistance and it's like a water pipe... 4 ohm is a bigger pipe and lets more water flow though. An 8 ohm is a smaller pipe (more resistance) and allows less water to flow through. A Webb will do fine with either a K or an E and a 4 or an 8. You might notice a little lower volume with an 8 ohm. Did I get that right Godfrey? |
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Paul Hutzler
From: Seattle, Wa
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 2:36 pm
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Cool, Dave. Thanks for that. I actually would like less volume! I'm having to turn the amp all the way down in order to not over power my band mate-- so I think if there isn't too much of a degradation in TONE than an 8-ohm sounds like the path forward for me-- less volume and my amp doesn't work as hard. _________________ Carter S-10, Shobud D-10, Shobud Pro II D-10, Supro 8 String Lap Steel, Regal Black Lightening Dobro, and Excel D-10 with 10 pickups one for each string, one string for each amp |
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Dave Zirbel
From: Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 2:56 pm
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I ran an 8 ohm K-130 in my Webb 6-14E for years and it still works and sounds just fine. I remember reading years ago, probably on the forum, that some guys liked the 8 ohm better because it was less likely to blow. I believe the 4 ohm K-130's were blowing but it was getting difficult and expensive to find 4 ohm replacement speakers or recone kits, so they either reconed as 8 ohm or just found an 8 ohm speaker, and claimed to not have a problem with them blowing. I believe the idea is that the mismatch makes the speaker less likely to blow because it doesn't draw as much power (?)... _________________ Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Godfrey Arthur
From: 3rd Rock
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 4:59 pm
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Dave Diehl wrote: |
My Webb's have the E130-4 in them. Godfrey was talking around this point but, putting an 8 ohm speaker in there will cause the amp to run a little cooler because it's not pushing as many watts out to the speaker... 4 ohm is less resistance and it's like a water pipe... 4 ohm is a bigger pipe and lets more water flow though. An 8 ohm is a smaller pipe (more resistance) and allows less water to flow through. A Webb will do fine with either a K or an E and a 4 or an 8. You might notice a little lower volume with an 8 ohm. Did I get that right Godfrey? |
I'm not sure if the amp would run cooler Dave. But yeah a lower volume may result at 8 ohms.
This is reason why I suggested asking the amp maker as they know their product.
It is a solid state amp for one thing. But if in using the amp with a speaker impedance not optimal for the amp as designed by the the amp builder and then expecting the amp to be able to work in all situations where volume is up and down depending on venue, then will the speaker swap be that advantageous? Will you like how your amp reacts when you go to turn up the volume.
For a clean tone, running an 8 ohm speaker when the amp was designed for 4 will get the amp to distort at higher volumes. There goes the clean headroom.
It would depend on how the musician plays their guitar.
Then power quality from venue to venue will change the way any one amp reacts. Sometimes the power quality is good sometimes it's not and amps start to sound funky.
In a pinch, try it if you have the 8 ohm speaker and see if you are satisfied. Worst that can happen is the amp quits during the gig or some parts wear out.
If your amp is under warranty, caveat emptor.
You still have to like what you hear no matter.
Par for the course.
_________________ ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Dave Diehl
From: Mechanicsville, MD, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 6:03 pm
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Problem is the amp maker was Mr. Webb and he passed away some years ago. Brad Sarno would be an excellent source however. He is totally familiar with them. |
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Jim Cooley
From: The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 6:19 pm
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I have a first generation Webb. It came with a JBL K130 4 ohm speaker. It has two speaker jacks on the back panel, and is labelled 2-4-8 Ohms. I don't think running an 8 Ohm speaker would be an issue. I would try to contact Tom Bradshaw through the forum. I believe he acquired the Webb rights from Jim Webb. |
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Richard Sinkler
From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 6:27 pm
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Dave Diehl wrote: |
Problem is the amp maker was Mr. Webb and he passed away some years ago. Brad Sarno would be an excellent source however. He is totally familiar with them. |
Tom Bradshaw built Webbs after Jimmy died. He would know. He used a Eminence (I think) neo in them. Not sure if it was 4 or 8 ohms. _________________ Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From: 3rd Rock
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 6:28 pm
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Jim Cooley wrote: |
I have a first generation Webb. It came with a JBL K130 4 ohm speaker. It has two speaker jacks on the back panel, and is labelled 2-4-8 Ohms. I don't think running an 8 Ohm speaker would be an issue. I would try to contact Tom Bradshaw through the forum. I believe he acquired the Webb rights from Jim Webb. |
If your amp has the 2-4-8 ohm designation then it appears that amp would be comfortable with either impedance.
That said, you would invest time, money and effort to discover which speaker will work for you.
But that's what we do anyway.
It would be easier to find an 8 ohm JBL if that is your preference than a 4 ohm.
You can have the impedance changed if you go to recone the speaker as well. _________________ ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Paul Hutzler
From: Seattle, Wa
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Posted 10 Jan 2019 3:33 pm
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I decided to have the K130 4 ohm reconed and converted to an 8 ohm. Thanks for your inputs. _________________ Carter S-10, Shobud D-10, Shobud Pro II D-10, Supro 8 String Lap Steel, Regal Black Lightening Dobro, and Excel D-10 with 10 pickups one for each string, one string for each amp |
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Tom Bradshaw
From: Walnut Creek, California, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2019 10:47 am 4-ohm vs. 8-ohm speakers in Webb amps.
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Paul: When Jim Webb began offering his amps in about 1975, he preferred 4-ohm JBL speakers. That was because they delivered the most volume. Unfortunately, they couldn't handle the 225 watts that most of the 6-14E (models) delivered. The result was too many blown speakers. He had to go to the 8-ohm JBL's to avoid this. There appeared to be no difference in the tone delivered by this practical decision.
Not all of the 6-14E models were 225 watts. Webb did offer a few 150 watt amps throughout the years he was building, but their wattage wasn't always identified as such on the amps. Therefore, you should determine the exact wattage of your amp happens to be. If it happens to be 150, you shouldn't have a problem with an 4-ohm speaker.
I only built 22 amps after I bought the Company. All were listed at the 225 watt level, since I trusted that Jim was correct with his wattage level. However, I discovered that they all checked out at slightly over 230 watts. I installed Eminence, neodymium speakers in all I produced. I can't now remember if they were 4- or 8-ohms. ...Tom |
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Tom Bradshaw
From: Walnut Creek, California, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2019 10:47 am 4-ohm vs. 8-ohm speakers in Webb amps.
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Paul: When Jim Webb began offering his amps in about 1975, he preferred 4-ohm JBL speakers. That was because they delivered the most volume. Unfortunately, they couldn't handle the 225 watts that most of the 6-14E (models) delivered. The result was too many blown speakers. He had to go to the 8-ohm JBL's to avoid this. There appeared to be no difference in the tone delivered by this practical decision.
Not all of the 6-14E models were 225 watts. Webb did offer a few 150 watt amps throughout the years he was building, but their wattage wasn't always identified as such on the amps. Therefore, you should determine the exact wattage of your amp happens to be. If it happens to be 150, you shouldn't have a problem with an 4-ohm speaker.
I only built 22 amps after I bought the Company. All were listed at the 225 watt level, since I trusted that Jim was correct with his wattage level. However, I discovered that they all checked out at slightly over 230 watts. I installed Eminence, neodymium speakers in all I produced. I can't now remember if they were 4- or 8-ohms. ...Tom |
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Paul Hutzler
From: Seattle, Wa
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Posted 17 Jan 2019 3:39 pm
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Tom Bradshaw, thank you for the informative reply! I went with having my JBL k130 reconed and converted to an 8-ohm. It will be ready later this week. _________________ Carter S-10, Shobud D-10, Shobud Pro II D-10, Supro 8 String Lap Steel, Regal Black Lightening Dobro, and Excel D-10 with 10 pickups one for each string, one string for each amp |
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