| Author |
Topic: Beginner Bad Habbits |
Logan Bunch
From:
Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 28 Dec 2018 6:24 pm |
|
| As I’m diving deeper into learning this thing, I’m curious to all of you guys and gals opinions on what could be some common beginner bad habbits. I kno there has to be a few things that set you back, something that seems easier to do when your first starting that comes back to bite you in the rear later on as you progress, I just caught myself a few minutes ago, taking off my finger picks trying to “smooth out†the sound, in my mind, it did work I must say, but I kno that isn’t right, and I should learn how to correctly control my picking to make it smooth and sound better, I immediately put them back on and began to wonder is there anything else I’m doing to make this easier now, but harder later, I do kno I’m holding the bar correctly, but I’m curious if there is anything I’m doing that is gonna slow me down later down the road, if, and that’s a big if, I ever progress on this thing |
|
|
|
Bill Burch
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 28 Dec 2018 6:29 pm
|
|
Logan,
As a pretty new player myself, one of the things I'm working on is not just planting the bar across all the strings but rather focusing on covering the strings I'm actually playing. If your picking strings 10/8/6, then place the bar on those strings.
Paul Franklin emphasizes this in his new beginner's course. It helps to see the position of the bar in relation to the fret markers.
Bill |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 28 Dec 2018 7:11 pm
|
|
| Along with those already mentioned, there are several other issues that some beginners have problems with. One is not holding the bar parallel with the frets, and this will lead to playing out of tune. (It's also necessary to hold the bar straight when sliding it up and down the neck). Another thing beginners can have problems with is the volume pedal. There is a tendency, for some, to "pump" the volume pedal, and "sneak" into chords and notes (supposedly, to keep others from hearing mistakes?). You should normally be able to hear the attack of the pick hitting the string when you play, though there are times you might intentionally mask the attack with the volume pedal. Lastly, along with this idea, beginners need to learn to pick cleanly, and with authority, as picking too lightly can lead to increased pick noise and irregular sound. |
|
|
|
Jay Coover
From:
Seattle, WA, USA
|
Posted 28 Dec 2018 7:47 pm
|
|
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Along with those already mentioned, there are several other issues that some beginners have problems with. One is not holding the bar parallel with the frets, and this will lead to playing out of tune. (It's also necessary to hold the bar straight when sliding it up and down the neck). Another thing beginners can have problems with is the volume pedal. There is a tendency, for some, to "pump" the volume pedal, and "sneak" into chords and notes (supposedly, to keep others from hearing mistakes?). You should normally be able to hear the attack of the pick hitting the string when you play, though there are times you might intentionally mask the attack with the volume pedal. Lastly, along with this idea, beginners need to learn to pick cleanly, and with authority, as picking too lightly can lead to increased pick noise and irregular sound. |
Thanks Donny. This reinforces some of the things that I know I could probably improve on. It's not like I haven't heard it before, but sometimes, well you need to keep hearing it.
My take on the volume pedal, and you are absolutely right. I have been a musician long enough to know if what I'm hearing is about right and when something isn't working. I think a challenge for many in VP technique is made worse by volume pedals without ideal tapers. That's what you're feeling. It's a bit frustrating if you can't go and try a bunch of them out in a store somehwere.
_________________
GFI Expo S-10 3x5
Goodrich 120 |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
|
|
|
Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
|
Posted 29 Dec 2018 12:39 am
|
|
This advice has nothing to do with playing technique more with style:
I would avoid pumping in the A pedal (with B pedal down) all the time, it can become boring soon. I did this way to often when I started.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
|
|
|
Sean Borton
From:
Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 29 Dec 2018 3:07 am
|
|
Overuse of Vibrato.
When I'm having a bad day I notice my left hand tries to over compensate with mindless vibrato, likely in an attempt to make it sound more interesting. Steel is not my primary instrument... I find I need to keep that left hand in check at all times! |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 29 Dec 2018 11:04 am
|
|
| Jay Coover wrote: |
| ...I think a challenge for many in VP technique is made worse by volume pedals without ideal tapers. |
One thing to keep in mind is that the less you move the volume pedal, the less you're affected by differences in taper. Also, if you keep the amp volume fairly high, you have less need to "floor" and work the pedal excessively. (And, you'll have a lot more sustain available.) If you've ever watched the pros play, you'll notice that, in general, they don't do a whole lot of working the volume pedal.  |
|
|
|
Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
|
Posted 29 Dec 2018 7:06 pm
|
|
| Make sure to hold your bar perfectly straight both while it's stationary over a fret marker and while sliding it back and forth. You don't want to be messing with your intonation by fish tailing it. Obviously this doesn't apply if you're going for bar slants. |
|
|
|
Logan Bunch
From:
Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 30 Dec 2018 6:33 am
|
|
| Thanks guys! A lot of awesome advice right here!!! |
|
|
|
john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
|
Posted 30 Dec 2018 6:57 am Want hot sauce with that?
|
|
Avoid the dreaded "chicken wing".
Best to keep your elbows in a relaxed position at your side. If your elbow gets higher than your wrist...look out for the hot sauce! ..... Bad Hobbit!
Happy new year.
JW
_________________
Steel Guitar Services:
Live performance and recording. Instruments, repairs and lessons. Fresh bait/discount sushi.
(203) 858-8498
widcj@hotmail.com |
|
|
|
Jon Voth
From:
Virginia, USA
|
Posted 30 Dec 2018 7:32 pm
|
|
Hi Logan,
A beginner myself (more than a year).
My bad habits are often forgetting enough pressure on the bar to stop buzzing. And forgetting to dampen strings (fingers left of the bar) when playing 12th fret to avoid that funky ringing.
And of course my right foot is a complete mess. To me that is the hardest part.
Happy new year.
Jon |
|
|
|
Logan Bunch
From:
Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 31 Dec 2018 5:52 am
|
|
| So would a, I guess I would call it shakey/kinda on the edge on being in tune issue I get on higher frets, anything higher than 12 really, is that due to lack of string dampening or possibly not enough bar pressure, sometimes I can make it sound decent down there, other times it sounds terrible and I’ve yet to consistently figure out the exact issue |
|
|
|
Logan Bunch
From:
Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 31 Dec 2018 7:10 am
|
|
| So would a, I guess I would call it shakey/kinda on the edge on being in tune issue I get on higher frets, anything higher than 12 really, is that due to lack of string dampening or possibly not enough bar pressure, sometimes I can make it sound decent down there, other times it sounds terrible and I’ve yet to consistently figure out the exact issue |
|
|
|
Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
|
Posted 31 Dec 2018 4:08 pm
|
|
"So would a, I guess I would call it shakey/kinda on the edge on being in tune issue I get on higher frets, anything higher than 12 really, is that due to lack of string dampening or possibly not enough bar pressure, sometimes I can make it sound decent down there, other times it sounds terrible and I’ve yet to consistently figure out the exact issue"
Playing in tune is one of the things that make the steel guitar difficult to play. It takes time to develop your ear and to reach a point where you automatically make adjustments with the bar to play in tune. Daily practice is the key. That's the only way to improve.
So, don't get discouraged, you just need to put in the seat time. Make some recordings of your playing and review them occasionally, if you practice the basics every day, you should see improvement over time. Not days, or weeks but probably over months and years. |
|
|
|
ajm
From:
Los Angeles
|
Posted 1 Jan 2019 8:55 am
|
|
The problem with bad habits is that you often never realize them until they become a habit, at which point they are tough to kick.
Add to that the fact that for every bad habit there is, there is an accomplished player that uses it and does OK with it.
And none of these comments have even addressed the area of gear: Buying and selling to find the magic piece of gear (guitar, amp, processor, bar, strings, picks, volume pedal, etc) to make you a star.
Or playing too loud.
Or playing too much.
Here's an ideer: At one of the steel convention seminars/classes, the instructor should take maybe a half an hour or so and go through a list of these bad habits. |
|
|
|
Brian Gattis
From:
Georgia, USA
|
Posted 1 Jan 2019 10:08 am
|
|
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Jay Coover wrote: |
| ...I think a challenge for many in VP technique is made worse by volume pedals without ideal tapers. |
One thing to keep in mind is that the less you move the volume pedal, the less you're affected by differences in taper. Also, if you keep the amp volume fairly high, you have less need to "floor" and work the pedal excessively. (And, you'll have a lot more sustain available.) If you've ever watched the pros play, you'll notice that, in general, they don't do a whole lot of working the volume pedal. |
n
I’m not sure what pros you’ve been watching? The professional players I’ve seen play live use the VP extensively and very tastefully
It really is the heart and soul of the instrument and brings out originality! |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 1 Jan 2019 2:09 pm
|
|
| ajm wrote: |
| The problem with bad habits is that you often never realize them until they become a habit, at which point they are tough to kick.. |
Not being able to recognize a bad habit while it is developing - that’s a good one, ajm! I think some become self evident if a specific desired result can’t be accomplished using the currently available technique. And yes, having the skill and diligence for correcting the habit (or taking a proper course of action to avoid it in the first place) is something else.
As Paul Franklin says, are you going to try to climb Mt. Everest without a guide, having never climbed before? |
|
|
|
Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
|
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 1 Jan 2019 7:22 pm
|
|
| Brian Gattis wrote: |
I’m not sure what pros you’ve been watching? The professional players I’ve seen play live use the VP extensively and very tastefully
It really is the heart and soul of the instrument and brings out originality! |
Brian, I must confess that I've been "watching" (and playing) for well over a half-century. In doing that, I quickly came to observe that pros move the pedal far less than amateurs.  |
|
|
|
Franklin
|
Posted 1 Jan 2019 10:03 pm
|
|
Logan,
You have the right attitude and are certainly asking the right questions....Buddy told me as a kid, "I would need a bigger rake" when I was spinning around not knowing which advice to follow....and that is certainly true in this thread about learning the volume pedal.....You sound like you want to play emotional music....That's awesome!
Here is a prime example of Buddy Emmons using a lot of Volume Pedal pumping...By backing it off, he softens, or at times almost eliminates the sound of his confident picking attack.... He was a forceful player and his volume pedal use was a lot, not minimal ...You can clearly hear how Buddy's steel is breathing emotion due to a very well practiced volume pedal. This track is a master class in how to use the volume pedal.....Also listen to the large amounts of vibrato he uses at times....All of the foundations are mastered and needed for this type of playing.....Some of the advice you are getting would never take you to this highway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX9rfyQAfDI
If you don't want to make any mistakes learning the foundational skills that can take you into the pro world, check out the new foundations course.
https://paulfranklinmethod.com/new-course-and-pfm-news/
Happy New Year!
Paul Franklin |
|
|
|
Franklin
|
Posted 1 Jan 2019 10:10 pm
|
|
Logan,
Intonation has everything to do with how you move the bar fret to fret....Also buying the right bar to begin with is key..Getting one long enough for your fingers is crucial to good left hand technique......Above the 12th fret a 15/16 will be much harder to intonate than the 7/8ths....
Paul Franklin |
|
|
|
Brian Gattis
From:
Georgia, USA
|
Posted 2 Jan 2019 7:49 am
|
|
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Brian Gattis wrote: |
I’m not sure what pros you’ve been watching? The professional players I’ve seen play live use the VP extensively and very tastefully
It really is the heart and soul of the instrument and brings out originality! |
Brian, I must confess that I've been "watching" (and playing) for well over a half-century. In doing that, I quickly came to observe that pros move the pedal far less than amateurs. |
Donny,
I am certainly not questioning your experience in playing steel. I know a lotof amatuers overwork/pump the VP. Top players are masters of the VP. It is what seperates them from the rest. Steel with minimal VP work lacks the emotion. Happy New Year to all.
Brian G |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 2 Jan 2019 8:58 am
|
|
Based on some responses, I do think my advice about using the volume pedal has been misunderstood, so I'll elaborate a little to try and clear up the misunderstanding. A lot of newbie players tend to constantly "pump" the volume pedal, "sneak" into notes and chords, and overall just do a lot of unnecessary pedal manipulation. (Most of us, myself included, did that when we started. Nashville players Stu Basore and Bill Taylor both warned me about it.)
One thing that hasn't really been mentioned is when the volume pedal gets it's most usage. On slow songs, there is far more opportunity to widen the dynamics and increase sustain. This is one of the main ways we add feeling and expression. But on medium and fast songs, such movements are normally unnecessary. However, some players still do them. I also notice some players going to the "zero" (full off) position between phrases, which many times isn't necessary.
The following is a video of Buddy at a practice session. I urge beginners to watch how he uses the pedal. On most of the moderate and up-tempo stuff, there just isn't a lot of pedal movement, it's more like just some gentle squeezes. Now, on slow stuff, like "Blue Jade", there's far more movement, and with good effect. And on some of the stuff, like "Rose Colored Glasses" and "Ive Just Destroyed The World", the pedal action varies with different passages in the song.
It's not my intention here to argue with Paul. I'm not qualified to even carry his case.  But I think that even he would admit that there's a big difference between "excellent" pedal usage and "just too much".
'Course, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOiizSMGFDk&t=645s
` |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 2 Jan 2019 10:23 am
|
|
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Based on some responses, I do think my advice about using the volume pedal has been misunderstood, so I'll elaborate a little to try and clear up the misunderstanding. ` |
You recovered like a pro, Donny. I heard what you meant the first time, but I have gotten used to “Forumspeakâ€.
Sometimes members comment using Twitter rules - trying to be too concise - and end up not being fully understood or making the intended point. Pages and pages are in the forum archives on nuanced topics like volume pedal technique, and maybe another little something called “toneâ€.... for good reason.
Not to hijack the thread - one of my bad habits as a noob was not reading all the responses in a topic carefully, checking the links, listening to the clips, making sure I’m not repeating someone else’s thoughts, and really trying to understand what is being said before inserting my own genius into the conversation  |
|
|
|
