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Topic: Steel guitars that hold their tuning |
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2018 9:10 am |
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My new Sierra built by Ross Shafer is very stable. It's such an easy grab'n'go rig. It can spend a night in my car and be in tune the next evening for the gig. 
Thanks
Dave
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 21 Dec 2018 9:58 am
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I would be surprised if any owner of a modern PSG were to come forward and say that his instrument didn't hold up. The design of these things hasn't changed a great deal but the materials and quality of build are being refined all the time.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Dec 2018 4:07 pm
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| Roy Peterman wrote: |
| Donny, I probably should clarify as to what I mean "staying in tune". I am a stickler for playing in tune, so if I have to tweak a string here and there, that is the norm. I have had as I said in earlier posts that some guitars needed more tweaking than others. I do have compensators on my Legrande which help quite a bit. I would say that some amateur players have problems pitching (hearing) and intonation problems. |
It's not only that, Roy, but also the way the guitar is strung and maintained, and the method used to tune it that can affect things. Not enough wraps around the tuning keys or loose keys will cause things to drift, as will tuning the guitar before you've played it for a few minutes, fine tuning down without "working" the pedals/levers, or not seating new strings firmly down at the nut and changer. There are lots of these "little things" that all of us pick up as we go, things we sometimes don't even think about, but even a newbie with good ears should learn them.
More arrows in the quiver, so to speak.  |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2018 6:53 pm
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I have had so many steels over the years I can't even remember them all. They were all quite good with a notable exception,,, Sho buds.. As much as I love Sho Buds, i have never had one like so many others have had,, stable and solid as far as staying in tune is concerned.,,
Rack and barrel/ 2&1-w/2 hole 2&2 w/2hole- Super Pro.. Didn't matter, never had one that stayed in tune for very long, played or unplayed.. Thats over a dozen Buds, all gone, all had stabiity issues that I never had with other brands.. I realize there are a lot of good solid in tune Sho buds out there, but try as i might, I personally never once laid hands on one... maybe some day... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Mike Christensen
From:
Cook Minnesota
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Posted 22 Dec 2018 3:37 am staying in tune
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| Williams 600 and virtually no cabinet drop. |
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Patrick Huey
From:
Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2018 4:37 am
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I have a 1995 Pre RP Mullen D10 that stays in tune very well. Also had a Carter Starter of all things, that stayed in tune very very well after a modification to the infamous knee lever stops. David Mitchel had a Bryan Adams push/pull that NEVER went out of tune.
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Pre RP Mullen D10 8/7, Zum 3/4, Carter S-10 3/4, previous Cougar SD-10 3/4 & GFI S-10 3/4, Fender Steel King, 2 Peavey Session 500's, Peavey Nashville 400, Boss DD-3, Profex-II, Hilton Digital Sustain, '88 Les Paul Custom,Epiphone MBIBG J-45, Fender Strat & Tele's, Takamine acoustics, Marshall amps, Boss effects, Ibanez Tube Screamer, and it all started with an old cranky worn out Kay acoustic you could slide a Mack truck between the strings and fretboard on!! |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2018 6:23 am
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| Williams 700. Also no cabinet drop. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2018 11:56 am
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
| I have had so many steels over the years I can't even remember them all. They were all quite good with a notable exception,,, Sho buds.. |
Although I have only owned a handful of pedal steels, my experience mirrors Bob's. I started on a 3 x 1 Red Baron, which I quickly outgrew. Traded it in on a brand-new 3 x 2 Pro-I. The 'Bud's fourth string lower would not return to pitch. Brought it to the top technician in town (Clem Schmitz) for the installation of an "F" lever, and asked him to check out the tuning problem. He made it better, but still not what I had hoped for.
Brought it back a while later to have a fourth knee lever installed, and asked Clem to tweak the pesky fourth string lower once again. No change. I asked him why that lower would not return to pitch, and he replied "well, it's a Sho-Bud." (Could this be one reason Lloyd does not lower his fourth string?)
Not long afterwards, I purchased a used D-10 push/pull from Clem. Problem solved. That was about forty years ago, and I'm still playing that D-10.
I put the 'Bud on consignment at Clem's Pedal Steel Guitar Emporium in Minneapolis. Eventually it sold; I took a big hit dollar-wise. I used the proceeds to fund the purchase of a 1929 Style-1 tricone, which I still play frequently. Although that Pro-I sounded great, it would not stay tuned. And I would consider essentially trading it for a vintage National one of the best moves I ever made. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2018 3:30 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
| I have had so many steels over the years I can't even remember them all. They were all quite good with a notable exception,,, Sho buds.. |
Although I have only owned a handful of pedal steels, my experience mirrors Bob's. I started on a 3 x 1 Red Baron, which I quickly outgrew. Traded it in on a brand-new 3 x 2 Pro-I. The 'Bud's fourth string lower would not return to pitch. Brought it to the top technician in town (Clem Schmitz) for the installation of an "F" lever, and asked him to check out the tuning problem. He made it better, but still not what I had hoped for.
Brought it back a while later to have a fourth knee lever installed, and asked Clem to tweak the pesky fourth string lower once again. No change. I asked him why that lower would not return to pitch, and he replied "well, it's a Sho-Bud." (Could this be one reason Lloyd does not lower his fourth string?)
Not long afterwards, I purchased a used D-10 push/pull from Clem. Problem solved. That was about forty years ago, and I'm still playing that D-10.
I put the 'Bud on consignment at Clem's Pedal Steel Guitar Emporium in Minneapolis. Eventually it sold; I took a big hit dollar-wise. I used the proceeds to fund the purchase of a 1929 Style-1 tricone, which I still play frequently. Although that Pro-I sounded great, it would not stay tuned. And I would consider essentially trading it for a vintage National one of the best moves I ever made. |
Over the years here, a lot of our friends have been angered by my discussing the tuning stability issues I have had with Buds.. Problem is i am not bad mouthing those guitars.. I LOVE them and kept on trying to find the right one for me,, the one that would simply work the way I wanted.. Just never found one that was 100% dependable.
Many others have obviously had better success.
I always defaulted to other brands that would stay in tune under the tough road conditions i subjected them to.. MSA, Carter, Marlen, GFI, and other made the cut tuning wise, but none of them ever compared favorably with that great Bud sound , not to my ears anyway.. It was always a struggle, for decades.. i would keep a Bud on the road for a few months, get annoyed at it popping a string far too soon,or going out of tune when the lights hit it, or the temperature dropped, or when it was simply played harder than it wanted to be played.. Loved the look, sound, and action of all those Buds I owned.. however in the end, tuning stability always trumped all the other positive attributes I enjoyed with sho buds, and I always went back to steels I actually liked a lot less, but could play every night with fewer headaches.. i know that old Bud is out there somewhere, maybe now that I'm retired from playing "commercially" I'll find it before I am stardust.... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2018 5:24 pm
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My Mullen was one of the best. I have had several people say "Bill never tunes it."
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Bill |
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Jerry Horch
From:
Alva, Florida, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2018 6:18 am
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My Franklin is an early 90's .Only thing that effects it is temperature.Once it is settled in it stays.Over the years I've never even had to tune any pull over a smidgin on the nut.New strings ...very close.I use the same guage sets.
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Franklin D10 /Walker Sterio Steel JBL's /DigiTech Quad4/ Korg Toneworks/ Dobro DM 1000 / Santa Cruz Guitar VA |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 24 Dec 2018 7:16 am
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All of my past and current pedal steel guitars have been quite stable; but, I've always been one to keep fresh strings on my instruments.
MSA D10 mid 1970s
Emmons U12 early 1980s
Mullen U12 late 1990s pre-RP
Williams S10 400 Series
BMI S10 new
The only tuning complaint would be with the Emmons. On the rare occasion I would break a string, that guitar would go way out of tune, all strings, all changes.
Donny's points are spot on. Another thing to add to his list is this. When you sit down to play, especially after setting up the guitar, rub the palm of your hand back and forth on the strings before checking and adjusting the tuning. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 24 Dec 2018 10:10 am
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In my (albeit limited) experience, it seems that guitars that have all the changer stops at the endplate (ZB, Emmons push-pull, any pull-release) hold their tuning well.
I've never had to alter the settings on my Marlen pull-release since I initially set it up, nearly ten years ago 
Same with my ZB and Emmons PP (both setup by me in 1990) |
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Lyle Clary
From:
Decatur, Illinois, KC9VCB
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Posted 25 Dec 2018 10:14 am
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2014 Zum Encore S10 stays in tune out of the case and rarely a broken string.
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2006 Zum D10 8x8,1969 ZB Custom D10,
10 3x4 Peavey Nashville 112 Peavey LTD 400 2014 Zum Encore Wood Grain 4x5 Stage One pot pedal |
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Tom Belliveau
From:
Billerica Massachusetts
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Posted 31 Dec 2018 11:24 am
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Being from New England I really to let my Carter U12 warm up before a gig to tune up. I have used a hair drier at times. But, I am also a stickler for being in tune. Tom ( Ducky ) Belliveau
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Carter U12 7&5 Carter LE U12 7&6 Stereo steel amp.w/ twin 15in. Cabs (WeberNeo spks ) Fractal Ax-FX II . G&L S 500 2004 anniversary 54 Strat |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Jan 2019 1:06 am
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
I've never had a steel that didn't hold the tuning after new strings settle in.
If someone is having problems staying in tune its usually a string problem. Either old worn out strings or crappy new strings. |
I concur, or strings were wrapped poorly at the tuning key post.
If a Steel is not holding tune we really need to ask ourselves "why not " ?
The ball end is secured at one end, the other end is secured at the tuner peg. It's a guitar string. !
Like Jack and many others, I've never owned a Steel that didn't tune and hold tune, unless the string was bad or wrapped poorly. Many brands use the exact same tuners as well.
4 x Emmons
5 X Sho Buds
4 x Carters
Various others
The Steels had different PLAYING nuances but tuning and holding tune was never an issue, I never got rid of a Steel because it didn't hold tune.
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ben Lawson
From:
Brooksville Florida
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Posted 1 Jan 2019 6:34 am
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| Other than one MSA S12, I have only owned Emmons P/P D10 guitars. My current P/P is a'76 model that Jimmy Crawford built for me in his basement. It stays in tune but needs an occasional tweaking. It's due for a tune up by Mike Cass but I'm not playing much and we just moved so it'll probably have to wait. I think it still sounds pretty good. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 1 Jan 2019 12:24 pm
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| Had a ZB that Greg Lasser modded with the ball bearing roller nuts. Most stable guitar I've ever owned bar none. (no pun intended.) |
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Greg Thompson
From:
Taumarunui, New Zealand
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Posted 1 Jan 2019 12:29 pm
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I'm with Lyle Clary. Zum Encore S10 holds tuning and doesn't break strings. Thanks Bruce and Doug
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Prototype Zum Encore,5&4 NZ made Rockit Champ 60watt and 100watt Amplifiers, Hilton Pedal,NYXL Strings |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2019 1:02 pm
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The Emmons I’ve played through the decades have been pretty impressive when it comes to staying in tune. A lot of times I’ll pack one away after a gig, pull it out a week later and it’s still totally in tune.
Had a Sho-Bud Super Pro that I played for 20 or so years. It wasn’t as rock steady but it was a good steel nonetheless. |
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Brian Herder
From:
Philadelphia, Pa. USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2019 7:48 am
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| My '74 Sho-Bud Pro ll would be very stable if I ever get around to changing the worn nylon nuts. My Super Pro era Pro l is stable as the day is long. |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2019 11:36 am
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I'm always amazed at how well my Rittenberry stays in tune.
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Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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James Callan
From:
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 7:07 am Re: Steel guitars that hold their tuning
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| Roy Peterman wrote: |
Maybe I am opening a can of worms, but I am curious with all the steel guitars out there, which guitars seem to hold their tuning the best. I played out of Nashville for 12 years and played numerous guitars. Some stayed in tune really well, and others needed constant attention. I played Sho-bud, Emmons, Marlen, Mullen guitars, tried Franklin, Dekley and some other less known guitars. I know there are a lot of variables, but I am wondering what other pickers experiences have been. I will say that the best guitar I ever had for staying in tune was a Pro-II. All the other guitars I have played were decent, but the worst was a Speedy West guitar built by Marlen. I do love the Emmons guitars though, but they have varied in tuning stability too. I might add that I don't have any experience with Zum steels.
(Sorry Tommy Detamore) |
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I have had a Sho-Bud Pro II for many years. It stays in tune incredibly well. I also play a Carter D-10. I play out mostly with the Carter because it is so much lighter than the Sho-Bud. Once tuned prior to a show, the Carter stays in tune through 3 or 4 sets a night. |
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Gil Berry
From:
Westminster, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2019 3:16 am
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| I have owned quite a few steels in the past fifty or so years. I currently play an older Sierra keyless crown series uni. I love it but it is very temperature sensitive. Every time I sit down I need to tweak the open string tuning to compensate for the temperature changes - but once tuned it stays in tune pretty well. I once owned a wood neck '72 MSA D12 that you could leave in the case for months and it would be dead on when you took it out. I suspect the big difference is the temperature expansion of the largely metal Sierra vs. the mostly wood MSA but who's to say? They are both great guitars and far superior to the untalented would-be player that used them. |
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