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Topic: Charlie Christian pick ups |
George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 15 Dec 2018 11:50 am |
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Not too long ago, some where on the Forum, there was a thread about half decent guitars being dismantled and the parts sold for gold.
Are the Charlie Christian pick-ups on the Gibson CG's targets for such terrible acts!!!
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 16 Dec 2018 4:39 am
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| At one point folks were ripping them out to put them in Telecasters and such, but now that there are plenty of replicas on the market, there's no reason to do that anymore. |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2018 6:13 am
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| Noah Miller wrote: |
| At one point folks were ripping them out to put them in Telecasters and such, but now that there are plenty of replicas on the market, there's no reason to do that anymore. |
Some people still want the vintage "mojo" so the pilfering continues.. although it's not as bad as it is for Fender Champion steels... and the string through Valco pickups robbed for Coodercaster..
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 16 Dec 2018 7:53 am
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| Frank James Pracher wrote: |
| Noah Miller wrote: |
| At one point folks were ripping them out to put them in Telecasters and such, but now that there are plenty of replicas on the market, there's no reason to do that anymore. |
Some people still want the vintage "mojo" so the pilfering continues.. although it's not as bad as it is for Fender Champion steels... and the string through Valco pickups robbed for Coodercaster.. |
I'm sure it happens once in a while, but it's orders of magnitude rarer than with all the Fender or Valco steels, based on the number of old pickups showing up on Ebay and Reverb. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2018 8:53 am
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| Noah Miller wrote: |
| At one point folks were ripping them out to put them in Telecasters and such, but now that there are plenty of replicas on the market, there's no reason to do that anymore. |
the "replicas"....which ones use the EXACT same magnet as the Gibson used? |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 18 Dec 2018 10:30 am
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| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| Noah Miller wrote: |
| At one point folks were ripping them out to put them in Telecasters and such, but now that there are plenty of replicas on the market, there's no reason to do that anymore. |
the "replicas"....which ones use the EXACT same magnet as the Gibson used? |
I believe Slaman does. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2018 11:30 am
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| Noah Miller wrote: |
| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| Noah Miller wrote: |
| At one point folks were ripping them out to put them in Telecasters and such, but now that there are plenty of replicas on the market, there's no reason to do that anymore. |
the "replicas"....which ones use the EXACT same magnet as the Gibson used? |
I believe Slaman does. |
went over the slaman site....no mention of the magnet material. they do NOT sell the pickups individually, so you are back to robbing gibsons. I always wanted a guitar with the CC pickup. after I got a couple of them....they were so noisey, I could not gig with them. sold em. back in the day there was much less 60cycle junk in the wiring of a structure or radio/tv/cell phone/computer noise around you. I can tell the sound of these pickups on an archtop guitar in just one or two notes, especially in the low end. so clear and bright. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 18 Dec 2018 11:48 am
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| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| they do NOT sell the pickups individually, so you are back to robbing gibsons. |
That's obviously illogical. Even with cobalt steel, the original CCs were highly variable; there's no need to disassemble old steels to get in the same range of sounds. |
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Mike Anderson
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 19 Dec 2018 5:18 am
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No need to rob Gibsons...this guy in England seems to be the real deal:
http://www.ccpickups.co.uk/about.html
http://www.ccpickups.co.uk/pickups.html
His website disappears sporadically, but I think that's his host having issues (you can see broken image links here and there), or he just occasionally forgets to pay his hosting fees. Not cheap, but highly praised pickups anyway. |
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Jouni Karvonen
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Keith Glendinning
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2018 8:33 am
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I'd like to add another CC Pickup maker. It's Jag Guitars in the UK.
Mike Holland has a few vids on the site with his guitar fitted with one of the CC Pickups. Incidentally, they also supply an 8 string version and come in a couple of shapes and colours. I can vouch for the 8 string CC Pickups as I have one fitted to my own Lap Steel and it sounds awesome. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 19 Dec 2018 8:36 am
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I've had a couple of old ES-150s, and my experience with the reissue CC picksups (not owned but played in other peoples' guitars) was like Bill's. Close but no cigar. I don't know what it was - the cobalt-steel magnets, wire gauge, other build details, or something else. But the reissues I've played just didn't have the sparkle of the originals I've played. The CC pickups are prone to single-coil hum, no doubt, but so are P90s or Tele/Strat pickups, for that matter. I think the noisiness can vary - I've had old single-coils (even P90s, which tend to be notoriously noisy) that were reasonably quiet, and others that were just unusable. The guitar construction obviously can affect this also.
This one is new to me. He says cobalt-steel magnets, correct wire, etc. Probably worth a shot. I have a '68 Esquire that was routed out for a larger pickup (by Danny Gatton, apparently) with which I've been using a 60s Gibson mini-humbucker for the last 20 or so years. I've always wanted to put a real CC in there, but never could bring myself to tear apart an old guitar to get one.
Mojo says this (italics mine):
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Acrylic black and white top with radiused steel blade pole piece and alnico 5 magnets.
Wound with vintage correct 38awg wire
Neck 3.2K |
I think that's SOP on these reissues, Mike's link is the first I've seen that specifically says they're using the original magnet material.
Note that I'm not defending the practice of robbing parts from nice, fully intact old guitars or steels. But I do understand why someone might want to do it to get an authentic old CC pickup - they want that sound in a modern, more playable guitar, and they've tried other options and it didn't work out. My 150s were kind of a bear to play in a practical gigging situation, but man did they sound great. So if I had run into a CC pickup in a significantly altered or, better yet, fairly trashed old Gibson, I'd have grabbed it. |
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Keith Glendinning
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2018 8:47 am
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Since I posted the answer regarding Jag Guitar Pickups, I have found that John Anthony has sadly passed away and the Jag/Baytone Pickups are no longer being produced.
If you have one of these pickups, treasure it in John's memory. |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 19 Dec 2018 3:26 pm
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Wow, that's quite an array of detailed responses. I didn't realize the subject had so many facets to it. Thanks to all who responded.
G
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 19 Dec 2018 8:16 pm
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I'm not into the "mojo" stuff .. I recently sold a 7 string Gibson of 1938/39 vintage to Casey Olson in Hawaii. It had that CC pickup in it. Huge magnets inside the body. It sounded nice etc, but I didn't need a room full of guitars ! 
 This guitar was falling apart from being in a damp basement, when it was given to me, so after getting it back together, I painted it black. Sunburst finish was history !
Original knobs were gone, so I used the Abeloni (SP) type... |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 19 Dec 2018 8:35 pm
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Bill, that would be a good project!!!!
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 20 Dec 2018 1:10 pm
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Here's a look under the hood ....
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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C. E. Jackson
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Posted 20 Dec 2018 5:15 pm
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The first CC pickup bar magnets were a pair of large flat magnets (4.50" x 1.25" x 0.375"). The earlier pickups were wound with 4,000 turns of #38 wire with DC resistance of about 4,000 Ohms. The specifications were changed to 10,000 turns of #42 wire about mid-1938 which increased DC resistance to about 8,000 Ohms on most Gibson pickups for several years. The first units had magnets of nickel and steel, but late in 1937 Gibson changed to cobalt and steel with initially 17% cobalt and later 36% cobalt content.
Later, Gibson made a pickup that looked the same as the bar magnet, but was actually a U-magnet pickup (many call the U-magnet pickup a CC pickup, but they are different).
I have steels with pickups of earlier and later type CC magnets, and also with pickups with the U-magnets. I personally like the pickups with CC magnets of nickel and steel better than the cobalt and steel pickups. I also like the pickups with U-magnets.
Additional information can be found in Gibson records.
C. E. Jackson
_________________
My Vintage Steel Guitars
My YouTube Steel Guitar Playlists
My YouTube Steel Guitar Songs
A6 tuning for steels |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 21 Dec 2018 6:58 am
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Pretty big to do on making this pickup.
According to the CC site, they scavenged the planet for pre-war materials that existed back when the originals were made and stating cobalt magnets only hold their magnetism for 200 years and that 70 years in, the originals are not as strong as they were when new.
$300 + on this pickup.
CC ES250
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2019 2:06 am
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I really enjoyed this SGF discussion; Some really good info.
6 months or-so ago I purchased a Gibson-made 1938 Recording King Roy Smeck model AB104 in very good condition with an original oval-ends version of the Charlie Christian pickup. The pointed ends top-cap version is better known as the Charlie Christian, although they're both known to be the same pickup. Apparantly the round ends version was made for jobber contracts such as Recording King.
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Here's the pointed-ends top cap version, with slightly different hardware for top mounting into hollow body Electric Spanish (ES) guitars; They insert through the pickup hole in the body. The same pickup with EH hardware was used in Gibson branded Electric Hawaiian (EH) guitars:
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Pointed ends version mounted in Gibson branded ES guitar:
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Round ends version mounted in ES guitar. Notice that the headstock is jobber shaped like Recording Kings:
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I had read a number of times that the original Recording King AB104s were on par with Gibson branded steels of that era (1935-1940); And the price for this one was a "steal". I have not yet had the opportunity to measure this AB104's p'up's parameters to determine if the magnets are the first version (4,000 turns of #38 wire with DC resistance of about 4,000 Ohms) or the second version (10,000 turns of #42 wire incorporated about mid-1938 which increased DC resistance to about 8,000 Ohms). I'm still studying details when the occasional opportunities arise; I've been under cancer treatments since December 2017; Tonight one of those opportune times arose .
I've been scouring the internet for as much info as I could find to learn and archive as much as I could about the AB104 and Charlie Christian pickups and comparables & comparisons, ...pursuant to knowing the AB104 the best I can for when I can play it and do a very few very minor repairs not related to the p'up. I was born with mild 'highly functional autism' which has made my brain desire / need details to best understand what my senses take in, such as sight (art), sound (music), mechanics, etc. For many people I think technical info mixes with our senses to better understand what we see, hear, etc, ...but not for all folks by any means, who'd rather keep things simple and do just as well on that avenue. SO, with that in mind, here is the best discussion I have found on CC p'ups and their comparables, from tech viewpoints AND from just sound viewpoints:
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/one-cc-pickup-thread-to-rule-them-all.1943553/
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(My guitar shop has been closed / fallow for several years now):
_________________
Aloha,
Denny T~
http://www.dennysguitars.com/
Please help support humanity:
http://www.redcross.org/en/aboutus |
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Dennis Saydak
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 16 Nov 2019 8:38 am
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Nice pictures of the original pickups guys. I'm currently working on a replica Gibson EH-150. I bought a Vintage Vibe CC Rider pickup for it. I didn't want to drill four height adjustment holes in the top of my guitar. So here's my solution. The pickup can be removed / height adjusted through a recessed hatch in the back.
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Dennis
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race, the rats get faster. |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 16 Nov 2019 9:03 am
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Very nice work Dennis, please keep us posted as you make progress........
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Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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