Need Advice On Supro Resto. And ID

James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi All, I picked up this Supro MOTS, which I think is from 1947 according to the serial number. I think I have it narrowed down to a Clipper or a Supreme. Can anyone tell which one it is without the hardware?

Someone completely stripped this poor thing except for the serial number and fretboard. Even the Supro badge was removed. Would the Lollar string-through pup be the right choice for this guitar? If so, I would spend more than twice of what I paid for the body. Then I have the 1/4" jack problem. I think the original jack was a screw-in style?? Last but not least, where could I get the rest of the hardware, knobs, etc.?

Hopefully I didn't bite off more than I can chew. But I always wanted a MOTS, and this one is in pretty nice condition. What would you do, restore as close to original, or make it your own? All advice is welcomed.

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Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

It looks like the stripping was started and not completed?
That crinkle look gives it away. The finish appears to be loosing adhesion.
If I were to tackle it I would think getting that "Mother of Toilet Seat" finish would be tough to duplicate. - needs research.
Though very doable, all other hardware would have to be scratch built because Supro is long gone. Functional fitting tuning keys would be no problem. It wouldn't be original. That doesn't particularly matter in this case as they are not very valuable anyway. I dunno maybe the MOTS finish makes it so?
Routing a hole for a 1/4" jack is not out of the question.
Looks like a good candidate for a custom redo to me.

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

All the hardware you need should be available through Stewart-MacDonald or similar guitar parts store. The tuners are standard Kluson type tuners.

Given that you're basically starting from scratch, I'd go ahead and make it your own, with whatever pickup, etc. sounds good to you (and you can afford). This isn't a particularly rare guitar, and in its current state is just some wood and plastic.

Good luck with the project!
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Tom Pettingill · From: California, USA (deceased)

The Lollar Supro / Valco pickup is very nice, but is made as an independent unit and not as an integral part of the all in one bridge, base / cover plate. All that to say that it would deliver the classic string through pickup tone, but not suitable for an accurate restoration.

I'd agree with Jim and Brad and recommend just making it your own and have some fun with it.
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James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi Jim, and thanks for your response. The MOTS is in suprisingly good shape. Yes it is starting to peel slightly at the tuner holes. I might try some CA glue with a pipette, and clamp those areas overnight before installing new tuners. The MOTS is also delaminating slighty around the pup area, but the hardware should hide that. Or I could try CA glue there too.
JH
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James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi Brad, and thanks for your response as well. BTW, I really enjoy your web page and the wealth of information therein. What specifically do you recommend from Stewmac? I didn't see any large chrome plates that are shown on the original Supros of the late forties. Or is that something that I would need to make or have made?
JH
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James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi Tom, and thanks for your input too. I am a rookie guitar builder at best, so this is terra incognita to me. Would you have any recommendations for a bridge/tailpiece/plate for this Supro?
JH
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George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

If you are looking to do a restore , probably get a another one with the missing parts.

If you just want a working steel guitar fill the cavities , and make a cover plate from pickguard material to cover the ugly. Add what ever pup and so on you choose.

The lollar retro requires some precision placement as to height to bridge - string height.

IMHO you would be better off building something from Scratch to go with a Lollar, which is the best sounding for that type of pup.

James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Thanks George,
I like your idea of using the pickguard material as a cover plate. I have abandoned the idea of an accurate (or as close to accurate) restoration. Like you said, I would need to buy another vintage Supro to accomplish that. So the Frankensteel route seems to be the better option for a lower end guitar such as this.
JH
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James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Jim Pitman said "It looks like the stripping was started and not completed?
That crinkle look gives it away."

Hi Jim,
I just realized what you meant by the crinkle. What you were seeing was an optical illusion. It's actually the swirl in the MOTS and how the light reflects off the swirl that gives the crinkled appearance.
JH
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Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

It would be good to know whether you want to do this as cheaply as possible, or if you intend to hot rod your stripped-out body into a Super-Supro, or somewhere in between. It would be easy to spend more money on parts than for a comparable Supro with its original case in good working condition. Just a couple of basic recommendations:

Wholeheartedly agree that you should convert to a 1/4" jack.

If you choose a pickup with individual polepieces, be sure the spacing of your bridge will match up with the poles on the pickup.

Although there are cheaper options available, Gotoh makes reproductions of the Kluson Deluxe style strip tuners that are better than the originals. Stew-Mac also sells reproduction Kluson strip tuners that will drop right into your Supro. (I have a set that I installed in a Supro Supreme until I got around to installing new plastic buttons on its original tuners):

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Guitar_and_Solid_Peghead/Vintage-style_3-on-Plate_Tuners.html

As an aside, I hate it when people strip the parts off old lap steels. Even so, there are some great bargains to be had by purchasing a stripped-out carcass and installing new parts. Last September I purchased a very rare Gibson Ultratone with only its fretboard, nut, and bridge still intact. Its valuable original PAF humbucker, electronic components, tuners, pickup mounting ring, and jackplate were long gone. I purchased and installed all new parts, and now have a beautiful instrument that sounds just wonderful for a fraction of what an unmolested original would cost. And it looks original enough to fool all but the most expert vintage guitar snobs.

James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi Jack,
Nice to meet you, and I appreciate your input. To answer your question: I am not a cheapy-cheapy kind of guy. I want a good-looking LSG, as well as a nice sounding guitar. So I guess hot-rodded, but not all top-of-the-line parts. That being said, I will consider any recommendations you would be willing to offer. I'm the new kid on the block when it comes to guitar restoration. I have fixed broken necks on acoustic armpit guitars, and I have dabbled in other minor lap steel repairs. I have two lap steel builds in the works, and I am in the planning stages for number three. I will still need help with this one though. Thanks,
JH
P.S. I have an extra set of those strip tuners you mentioned from Stewmac, which I will install this weekend. The original holes will need to be drilled out slightly to accept the new tuner bushings.
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Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

James I wondered if the crinkle look I mentioned may have been an illusion of MOTS. I stand corrected.
I modified a cheaply built Electro with great results. I made a new pick guard and used a soapbar style pickup.
BTW I had a nice Supro stolen off the back of a pickup truck during load out years ago. Never did recover it. It was a string through pickup too, body was white with black fingerboard. Pickup was covered with a molded black plastic piece. The guitar was made in the early sixties. I loved the tone of it.
I built my latest lap steel from scratch. I'm real happy with it.
Good luck with your Supro.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi Jim,
That's ashame for someone to help themselves to your instrument. I think THAT is every musician's fear: to have their instrument stolen (piano and Hammond players excluded). Luckily it never happened to me, but I know people that had instruments stolen. Nowadays I guess we are smarter and keep a band member or band friend at the truck/car at all times when loading/unloading. I currently am not gigging, but it's still a great fear. Sometimes I'll misplace a guitar in my home, and that rush of panic sets in until I find it.

Would you be willing to post some pics of your lap steel build? I'd like to see it.

P.S. If you look at the fifth post up from this one, I tried to explain how your eyes might have been playing tricks on you.
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James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi Jack, and thanks for the heads-up on the Gitty bushings, but I don't mind drilling the holes out. I already have these tuners and bushings. So in the DIY spirit, I'll do a little extra work to save a little money!
JH

P.S. Jack, I like your Recording King and the price seems fair enough. But I bought 4 lap steels (including the one in this thread) since December 21st. Once one gets bitten by the LSG bug, man it's hard to stop. Plus I have a member of the opposite sex (called a wife) that lives here too. Nuff said.
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Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Here tis James. I had intended to add a couple of switches for all the wiring possibilities a dual coil pickup has to offer, as well as a volume control, but never got around to it. It's a 22.5" scale. I tune it like my dobro GBDGBD. It's hollow under the neck and sound board. The main body is maple stained dark and capped with figured maple.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

JP,
I was going to recommend plugging the jack hole, and re-drilling for the Same Tele cup jack.
Also!
"The original holes will need to be drilled out slightly to accept the new tuner bushings."

Drilling is risky business! Using a ream is what the pros do. Much less chance of the drill bit cracking the headstock! That old wood can suck the bit in too fast, and split the wood between the holes. Did that to me about 40 years ago. I bought a ream!

Stolen guitars? Some nice dad lowered his little kid down through a tiny roof vent window that no adult could fit through. Everything else had bars. The other guitar player lost his old ES=345, and two Tweed Twins. Bass player lost his Fifties Precision, and Ampeg head. The electric piano was taken. Me? I lost my Shobud Crossover, my white Showman, and,,,, my original 1958 Flying V, "28. We were devestated. The only things "dad" didn't take were big speaker bottoms, like the SVTs and PA. There were dusty little tennis shoe prints on the Speaker bottoms where "dad" lowered in his son.
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George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

We sell 6 String Nut and Bridges that would be good low cost solutions for you.

With Brass Insert -- spacing suggestion lines.
8 String version, - yours would be a 6 string version Great Sustain

Acrylic only 6 string set, more mellow sound still has great sustain.

Hopefully these parts can help your project.
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James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi Jim,
Where did you buy that guitar? Just kiddin'. She's a beauty! Thanks for sharing. I hope other forum members have seen, or will see this. If only I could......never mind. Great work of art!
JH

P.S. I also use the GBDGBD tuning. I am fond of this tuning. I play a 1940s Harmony acoustic (w/the F holes), and I play it lap style. The strings are high enough off the fretboard that it works. It's my kitchen guitar.
JH
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James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hello John, and, well, wow! What an incredible story about your former band's misfortune losing that many instruments in one sitting...?? Stolen instrument stories would be a good thread by themselves. You may only wish that karma came back around and nailed those thieves.

And much thanks for the heads-up on using the reamer as opposed to the drill. Reamer it is.
JH
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James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi George, and thanks once again for your recommendations. Do you offer a bridge that would align well with a P-90? That is one of the pups I am considering.
JH
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George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

The 6 String Version of these acrylic nuts have the Etched spacing markers set for a P90 .390 spacing.

They are simple guides , more than slots. The Brass is straight across, if you want to use a file to make slots , place them where ever you want.

The Tension of the strings is plenty to work as is -- no grooves needed.

The Brass is 1/2" tall.

I've used the Acrylic Only versions on a Rock-It with a soap bar P90, with awesome results. Less bright as metal, but less need to roll off highs with heavy EFX in use.

Just to clarify, I am not trying to Hawk my products, if they can help anyone - great.

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Godfrey Arthur · From: 3rd Rock

James thanks for posting this.

I finally get to see how this model Supro looks under the MOTS. The power of information and good forum maintenance cannot be overstated.

I kept thinking the MOTS was injection mold over a particleboard back built like an accordion.

Does anyone know what type of wood is under there and where it was grown?

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