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Topic: Double thread - PLEASE CLOSE |
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 11:09 am |
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I saw this pic and thought it could be done on Pedal Steel.
Often times folks complain that they have to push the bar downward onto the strings to get them to all touch the bar evenly (due to the various string gages, non-gaged rollers, etc), especially at the first fret.
With a method like this the tops of all strings are at the same level, and the bar should touch all strings evenly with little pressure (at the first fret or any fret).
Last edited by Pete Burak on 5 Dec 2018 8:20 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 11:59 am
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| So in effect, it's like an inverted nut? Very interesting. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 1:10 pm
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How does this compensate for the string height differences which are a function the of cross sectional diameter of each string? Is the clamping bar conical? I doubt that would work on E9th with its “chromatic “strings being of larger diameter than the 3rd string. Besides it would interfere with slide-offs on the lower frets.
I think custom gauged rollers would be a better solution to achieve planarity |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 1:46 pm
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You must be seeing something different than me.
The "top" of all strings are on the same plane, regardless of gauge, or core thickness.
The guy is building them so I assume he has the other concerns worked out.
My Sierra has custom gauged rollers. They work better than non gauged. |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 1:53 pm
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
You must be seeing something different than me.
The "top" of all strings are on the same plane, regardless of gauge, or core thickness.
The guy is building them so I assume he has the other concerns worked out.
My Sierra has custom gauged rollers. They work better than non gauged. |
brilliant design IMO. the top surface of the strings is flat due to coming off the bottom of the roller. So the surface/plane that the bar sits on is totally flat.
The bottom of the strings is uneven, unlike a normal nut set up. No idea if it sounds good, but it's a cool innovation.
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A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 2:14 pm
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I've seen this design before. This is Fouke Industrial Guitars. The question I have is that wouldn't downward pressure take the strings off the nut itself?
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Facebook group for you daily dose of Steel https://www.facebook.com/groups/steelguitarunionhall |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 2:18 pm
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| Cool maybe...on a non- pedal steel. But on a pedal steel, the considerable added friction would likely make hysteresis far worse. Even if there were individual string rollers, the sharp breaks would add to the total frictional component. |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 2:55 pm
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GFI Pedal Steels use a similar non-roller nut, so i don't think that would be an issue.
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 3:26 pm
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
GFI Pedal Steels use a similar non-roller nut, so i don't think that would be an issue.
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Enough hysteresis on mine to make it nearly unplayable, so, yes, friction is an issue. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 3:44 pm
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Darn sorry Georg!
I have never heard that before from any GFI players. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 6:00 pm
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Well, Gene Fields (RIP) said there was no way I could hear that "minute" (slip/hang) hysteresis, when I mentioned it to him in Dallas years ago. So, maybe most GFI keyless players don't have good enough ears to notice or be bothered‥?
A drop of oil on the nut eliminates the hysteresis … for about 30 seconds or so until the strings bite through. Permanent solution will be to replace the solid nut with rollers, which isn't all that easy on a GFI so I returned to Dekleys.
My conclusion: do not use solid nuts on any PSGs, regardless of how it is constructed. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2018 9:05 pm
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| My experience corresponds to Georg's: hysteresis on my GFI Ultra keyless is at least as much as or more than on my other guitars (Sho-Bud, Mullen, Williams keyed). |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 5 Dec 2018 1:14 am Planar strings...
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Back to the OP's "top of strings all even" issue, using gauged rollers: My main PSGs are set up with what may be one of the must uneven string-sets ever found on a steel…
http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/var/s10tt-10.html
… so I use excentric rollers for the most deviating strings.
The groves are simply filed to slope deeper (and back up again) on about 1/2 of the roller diameter, so I can turn the rollers and lower the thick strings that are between the thinner strings, until all strings are leveled at the top.
As the rollers turn with the strings, and the degree of rotation is so small, they stay put at the right depth / string-height until I change strings.
Could have used a marker to remind myself of where the roller should be for correct depth of those rollers, but in practice they almost always come back into position by themselves after a string change and tune-up. Testing, and maybe adjusting, by placing the bar on first fret without applying pressure and make sure all strings are even and rattle-free, takes no time at all.
These excentric rollers have worked perfect for 30 years – made the first set this way in -88, and if I ever want to go back to standard E9 copedent and string-sets I only have to turn these rollers 180 degrees (or whatever fits) to be back to "normal". Most likely will never happen  |
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