For Santana sounding distortion

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

Any recommendations for a distortion or overdrive pedal that will give me a sound on pedal steel close to what Carlos Santana sounded like on Black Magic Woman. Nothing I've tried has that smooth singing quality. Well, I've actually only tried my Boss distortion pedal and my Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive as yet. But neither quite gets me there.

Brian Hollands · From: Geneva, FL USA

Do you have a compressor in the chain? Santana used a lot of compression
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Ken Morgan · From: Midland, Texas, USA

Pretty sure the compression on that record is from tape, console, etc...Santana used a Gibson SG with P90s and black face Twin Reverbs...front pickup with amp treble near full

I recall an article in which he preferred/used Altec speakers both live and studio...
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Godfrey Arthur · From: 3rd Rock

Factor in that the lines are played on a two-pickup guitar with picking done just behind the neck pickup between both. And the guitar strings are being pressed up against the fingerboard not dangling up against a steel bar. The fretboard hand adds to the tone on the guitar. A little difficult to get that effect on psg. Basically Santana plays direct and overdrives the amp but he picks the snot out of the strings but just enough to not be too thin or too thick. He goes for the lower mid and bass tones so getting an overdrive that has a tone control that will emphasize the lower mids might help.The attack of hitting the string is key for Santana lines.
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Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

i no longer have a compressor, my Boss unit conked out years ago. But that makes sense alright.

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

Yes I know I'm not to get an exact match but I'd like to get close without spending a fortune on new gear. Actually I do have a compressor built into my G Major rackmount processor...forgot about that since I just use the Telonics presets. I may look into that but would still need better distortion. I like that creamy sound.

Steve Pawlak · From: Arizona, USA

Try driving the crap out of a low wattage tube amp

Godfrey Arthur · From: 3rd Rock

A Tube Screamer might help get your amp to go into overdrive sans the decibels. Whether it will work on psg for you, needs to be seen.

You have the sound you hear in your head, you'll need to try different pedals and settings until you get something you like.

It's about gain structuring your gear.

When I listen to BMW, the guitar does not have that much distortion and sounds rather dirty, not "creamy."

Creamy would be IMO in the direction of Leslie West tone. For Yasgur's Farm for instance or anything off the Climbing album.
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Ezekiel 33:7

Jay Coover · From: Seattle, WA, USA

You may need something different than Carlos to approach that sound on PSG. My first guess would be something like a Boss DS-1 (cheap), keeping the gain and tone controls fairly low.

Usually, on guitar, you keep the gain fairly low on a TS and use it more as a colored clean boost, goosing your tube amp further into breakup. You may need more distortion coming from you pedal than the average 6 string TS user would be getting.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Remember that the volume pedal should not be part of the equation. Set it and forget it, preferably wide open. Adjust actual volume at the dirt pedal output and the amp. And with your fingers. It's easy to find a sound you like at home but then get timid on the bandstand and back off the volume pedal and starve the signal chain and get a totally different sound than you thought you'd dialed in.

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Start by putting the distortion before the Volume pedal.
A Humbucker pickup will help.
I use a Sarno Solar Flare distortion.
Work to find which strings and positions give the sound you like.
Try as I might the Santana and Allman Bros sound is tough to get.
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Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

I play that song in my "copy" band utilizing neck pickup on either my Strat or Tele, then into an MXR Distortion Plus or TC Electronics MojoMojo.
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Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

I started messing with the song as a joke one time at an informal jam. The lead player was playing it and kind of daring me to take a ride on it on steel. No distortion at all. We were both surprised at how well it went. The same thing happened at a birthday party jam recently and after that I starting thinking about adding to our band line-up as an instrumental. It would be the only piece I'd be using distortion on so I wouldn't pay much for another pedal. Maybe I'll pick up a used Boss, not the orange distortion, don't like that. Thanks for all the insight, I'll boil it down and try and settle on something.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

I have been working on the Santana type distortion for over 2 years. I have two sample circuits built and working. Samples only work when placed first out of the guitar. To be a commercial success, they must work anywhere in the signal chain. Players using pedal boards may put the distortion pedal anywhere on a pedal board. I have figured out what I need to do to make them work anywhere in the signal chain. My work and experimenting on the prototype circuits went on hold in October, because October and November is my busiest time for building Hilton volume pedals. No matter how good my 2 new circuits turn out to be, I doubt they are a commercial success. The reason is simple, there are thousands of distortion pedals on the market. Even if my circuits were the best at creating the Santana sound, I would be just another distortion pedal among the thousands. We will see what happens when I get back to experimenting after the Christmas rush.

Stephen Cowell · From: Round Rock, Texas, USA

I believe the Abraxas sound was a Yamaha SG through a Mesa Boogie Mk1. For that kind of touch you'll have to crank it... a dirt pedal alone won't get that singing tone and dynamics. Made loud to be played loud!
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Godfrey Arthur · From: 3rd Rock

If you hear Carlos play BMW in the 21st you will note it's pretty much the same way it was on the record give or take some amp overdrive and of course engineer tweakage.

It's the way he picks the guitar. And Carlos plays LOUD! He claims he thinks "BB King" when he hits the guitar. We know BB goes direct without effects. I know as well because I saw BB play live. A 335 variant through a Twin.

BMW pointers from the horse's mouth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ewI1UNcb4

Carlos' rig rundown *as of 2014*:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBNm0Ax4Vzc

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Ezekiel 33:7

Paul Honeycutt · From: Colorado, USA

I've gotten close with an MXR Dyna-Comp, a Zen Drive and a Boss DD-2 Delay. Guitar was a Gibson Les Paul Historic '56 with P-90's and the amp was a Y2K-era Vox AC-15.

Dwight Lewis · From: Huntsville, Alabama

Try using the Way Huge Fat Sandwich... it works for me.

Dwight
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Godfrey Arthur · From: 3rd Rock

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

I'm coming back to check on this thread from time to time and taking note of what options are out there. The thing is I have trouble to justify much of an investment for an effect pedal to use on one song. And that song isn't even in our line-up yet...not officially at least.

George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

Bill, i just like Ken, mainly use Brad Sarno's "Solar Flare". But if you are looking for a sweet singing type of Distortion/Dirt/Overdrive pedal, call it what you will, i would check out the Lawrence Petross Design 68 Drive pedal. I also own one of his 68 drive's only mine has silent switching and i love it. It has a sweet singing sustain much like the Santana Black Magic Woman type of sound. Little distortion, but lots of sustain. My buddy Phil McKnight {not a great guitarist but his heart is in the right place}, demo's it in the video link at the bottom of my post.

But bill, i have discovered through the years, and painstaking trial & error and hours and hours of patience. Like any effect with any instrument {i also play guitar} that 99% of trying to achieve the sound, or style of another instrument or player, is technique. If you want to sound like a dobro for instance, with a dobro simulator or EQ. You have to play like a dobro player, not like a steel player trying to imitate a dobro sound. Takes patience, practice and luck. A lot of folks will slave forever to learn a Franklin, Green or Hughey lick. I have found it's a full time job just to sound like me. You can do this, and do it convincingly.

Ed Pettersen · From: Tennessee, USA

If you're going for his old sound the Tanabe Santanabe is terrific. I've played it:

http://tanabe.tv/top/kudou/index-e.html
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Bryan Daste · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I like the Seymour Duncan Twin Tube Classic for creamy distortion. The trick is to roll off some highs with the tone control on the steel before it hits the distortion. I like my chain to be steel, VP, dist, amp.
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Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

There is a newer pedal - Boss sized with std 9V power - made by J. Rockett called the "Dude".

That is precisely what it is designed for - it has no clean boost sound nor doe it go into "fuzztone" territory.

Controls are Level, Ratio (amount of distortion - even at zero it's not clean unless disengaged, Treble and "Deep" - which is not, as one would expect, a "bass" control - instead it alters the voicing between that of an open backed and closed back speaker cabinet.

It gets the older Santana sound (the overdriven Mesa combo) but IMO is better at his (and others more modern, controlled Dumble Overdrive Special tone like Larry Carlton is famous for.

It's less sputtery than the "Black Magic Woman" tone, which is also virtually impossible to duplicate live because of the recorded versions' studio compression - which is nothing like the compression that comes from stompboxes. It was made to get the "cello-like" smooth distortion live.

The one caveat - it works best through a tube amp that is driving fairly hard so the speakers...as well as the output transformer...are working hard. Since it emulates output stage saturation it sounds weaker through an amp that's kind of idling at mid volume.

But this is true of ALL pedals capable of getting even close to the "cello" smoothness. They work "with" tube amp output stages, and low to mid volume tube and most solid-state amps pretty much fail at getting a rich version of that type of tone.

Tube screamer type "overdrives" are often recommended, but have a strong midrange voice that some like and some don't. The "Deep" control on the Dude eliminates that type of problem entirely.

I use one for both steel and 6-string. Highly recommended.
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