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Author Topic:  In-Ears or Headphones?
Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 2 Dec 2018 9:53 pm    
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I need some help choosing IEMs or headphones for gigs. I've been using Shure SE-112 IEMs. Not great, but they were free. They work OK until stage volume gets high, especially bass and keyboards, then I can't hear what I'm playing. Isolation is OK, but the definition of the steel just seems to get lost.

With everything mic'ed and a good FOH PA there's no reason for high SPL on the bandstand. But you all know the syndrome, which is a subject for "the never ending stage volume thread." Playing with folks who have volume discipline and ensemble sensibilities is a dream. Too late for most of my pals, who remember the 60's and have been destroying their hearing ever since. I'm looking for a tech solution that isn't too spendy.

Are the MEE M6 Pro IEMs worth a try?

Sennheiser HD280 Pro seems well regarded. Not sure about using cans instead of IEMs, but they are affordable.

Recommendations?
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Chris Willingham


From:
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Post  Posted 3 Dec 2018 11:21 am    
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I bought a pair of custom molded 64 Audio IEM's two years ago on their black Friday sale and they're just incredible. The clarity of the audio and the isolation are great.

They're having a big B stock 40% off clearance sale on their IEMs right now, just got an email about it this morning. Their customer service is really good and fast, also. If you can swing it, the custom fit are so comfortable, you'll hardly even realize they're in during a gig.

Our drummer has Alien Ears IEMs and he really likes his. Hope that helps.
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Bill Sinclair


From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
Post  Posted 3 Dec 2018 1:11 pm    
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As an audience member, seeing a player with full headphones makes me feel somewhat disconnected from the live music experience. Of course, I may just be a curmudgeon - I never could get used to seeing the Garth headphone mic either. Laughing
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Dick Wood


From:
Springtown Texas, USA
Post  Posted 4 Dec 2018 9:29 am    
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I use in ears and have tried Headphones and they get very tiring to wear over a four hour gig.
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 4 Dec 2018 3:15 pm    
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Bill Sinclair wrote:
As an audience member, seeing a player with full headphones makes me feel somewhat disconnected from the live music experience. Of course, I may just be a curmudgeon - I never could get used to seeing the Garth headphone mic either. Laughing


You have a good point, Bill. The audience connection is important. Maybe more so for hacks like me playing in a small local venue.

I think Garth is terrific. The headset struck me as odd when I first saw it. Now it's commonplace. He's a master at connecting with his crowd. I'm no Garth.
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Dale Foreman

 

From:
Crowley Louisiana, USA
Post  Posted 4 Dec 2018 7:03 pm     In ear monitors
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On small venues, we don't use monitors, we all use IEM's..
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 4 Dec 2018 9:46 pm    
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Dick Wood wrote:
I use in ears and have tried Headphones and they get very tiring to wear over a four hour gig.


That, plus it would be a waste of a nice hat.
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 4 Dec 2018 10:06 pm     Re: In ear monitors
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Dale Foreman wrote:
On small venues, we don't use monitors, we all use IEM's..



I can see where this is going. So which ones have you tried? How well do they work for steel guitar? I'm hoping to preserve the clarity of the steel when stage volume gets up there.
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Dyke Corson

 

From:
Fairmount, IL USA
Post  Posted 5 Dec 2018 9:06 pm    
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I use custom molded Westone triple drivers, had them for about 12 years. Prior to that I used their UM-2 foam tipped dual driver. BIG difference
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David Spires


From:
Millersport, OH
Post  Posted 6 Dec 2018 6:47 am    
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Hi Dan,

I think the key to IEMs is isolation. As Dyke said, "custom molds" are a huge improvement vs "generic fit". The improvement is because the fit blocks out more external sounds, and allows you to hear what the IEMs are actually putting out. There are many great brands and price points. I love and keep coming back to Westone.

If you are in a playing situation where everyone's amps are on stage, it makes isolation an even tougher thing to deal with. When I ran real amps on stage with Josh, they were never on the actual stage and not directly contributing to any stage volume.

You probably play a $4k pedal steel, so spending $500 on custom IEMs shouldn't feel like too much to spend, if it helps you play well and protects your hearing.

Best of luck,

David Spires
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 8 Dec 2018 10:48 am    
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David Spires wrote:
... I think the key to IEMs is isolation. As Dyke said, "custom molds" are a huge improvement vs "generic fit". The improvement is because the fit blocks out more external sounds, and allows you to hear what the IEMs are actually putting out.


Thanks David and Dyke. You're zeroing in on the root problem. My low-end IEMs "seem" to have enough isolation. They reduce ambient sound to a comfortable level, at least enough to protect my hearing (job #1). But my playing detail gets lost under loud bass and low-end keyboard. It's a masking effect that interferes with my pitch perception.

I play out casually, and not often. Hoping a better universal IEM will help, even if I can't spring for a custom molded product yet.

One of my pals likes his Westone UM Pro 20. Comments on those?
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David Spires


From:
Millersport, OH
Post  Posted 8 Dec 2018 12:14 pm    
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Dan,

The largest improvement would be from Generic Fit to Custom Fit. I wouldn't spend any money on "improved" Generics. Put it toward Custom fit, or --- get the band members to turn down, or place their amps where you won't get hit with their wash...

Good Luck!

David Spires
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Edward Rhea

 

From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
Post  Posted 8 Dec 2018 12:47 pm    
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Dan, perhaps it’s not your IEM’s, but your mix? The group I’m playing with uses a Mackie DLR-something or other wireless mixer. Each player has the ability to independently mix/unmix everything plugged into it...using an app on their mobile device. I can essentially turn up my instrument(s) and turn down/off everything and everyone I don’t wish to hear in my IEM’s, but the audience hears a completely balanced mix from the mains. I can tell you that there’s no way I’d be able to hear my fiddle using an amp or monitor wedge, especially if I had to share the monitor with another band mate. I truly hope you are able to resolve your issue?
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 8 Dec 2018 1:00 pm    
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Dan Robinson wrote:
But my playing detail gets lost under loud bass and low-end keyboard. It's a masking effect that interferes with my pitch perception.

I play out casually, and not often. Hoping a better universal IEM will help, even if I can't spring for a custom molded product yet.

One of my pals likes his Westone UM Pro 20. Comments on those?


The "better" and pricier IEM's are not going to fix your problem.

It would be a better monitoring mix system.

One where you can control the volume and/or appearance *or not* of other instruments in your ear monitors.

Just because monitors have gone from wedges to IEM's does not change the playing field if your monitor mixes are static and non-controllable.

A $300 IEM needs to be connected to a monitor mixer with discreet control of the monitor mix PER musician, not a one-mix-fits-all scenario.


The same would hold true for a $50 set of IEM's.

Back when wedges were king the same solution prevailed.



That said, many IEM packages come with different ear bud cushions to attempt a better fit. Or you can buy makes of ear cushions that might do a better job in your ears.

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Patrick Huey


From:
Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 9 Dec 2018 6:28 am     Re: In-Ears or Headphones?
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Dan Robinson wrote:
I need some help choosing IEMs or headphones for gigs. I've been using Shure SE-112 IEMs. Not great, but they were free. They work OK until stage volume gets high, especially bass and keyboards, then I can't hear what I'm playing. Isolation is OK, but the definition of the steel just seems to get lost.

With everything mic'ed and a good FOH PA there's no reason for high SPL on the bandstand. But you all know the syndrome, which is a subject for "the never ending stage volume thread." Playing with folks who have volume discipline and ensemble sensibilities is a dream. Too late for most of my pals, who remember the 60's and have been destroying their hearing ever since. I'm looking for a tech solution that isn't too spendy.

Are the MEE M6 Pro IEMs worth a try?

Sennheiser HD280 Pro seems well regarded. Not sure about using cans instead of IEMs, but they are affordable.
I have a small six band mini mixer I run my steel into and can take several lines from the soundboard (singer, band, guitarist, etc) and it allows me to individually adjust the volume of each through the IEM similar to playing in studio.

Recommendations?

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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 12 Dec 2018 11:42 pm    
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Edward Rhea wrote:
Dan, perhaps it’s not your IEM’s, but your mix?...


Eddie, thanks for bringing that up. The band has a MyMix system where I can customize my monitor mix. I get it dialed in during sound check. But it all goes to heck when stage volume increases.

What you said about hearing your fiddle got me thinking... at some point I might need ONLY myself. Adding drums, bass and keys just muddies the mix. I could turn everything else down, or off completely.

"Plan B" is using my amp's direct out with a headphone amplifier. I'm testing this with my IEMs. The steel guitad sounds much better than I expected. It's easy to set up. Worth a try at next rehearsal.
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Patrick Huey


From:
Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 13 Dec 2018 6:38 am    
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Dan Robinson wrote:
Edward Rhea wrote:
Dan, perhaps it’s not your IEM’s, but your mix?...


Eddie, thanks for bringing that up. The band has a MyMix system where I can customize my monitor mix. I get it dialed in during sound check. But it all goes to heck when stage volume increases.

What you said about hearing your fiddle got me thinking... at some point I might need ONLY myself. Adding drums, bass and keys just muddies the mix. I could turn everything else down, or off completely.

"Plan B" is using my amp's direct out with a headphone amplifier. I'm testing this with my IEMs. The steel guitad sounds much better than I expected. It's easy to set up. Worth a try at next rehearsal.

Dan,
If you are using IEM’s and a monitor and still having that much ambient stage noise I’m gonna assume you are usting the “stock” ear tips that come with the IEM’s and if that’s the case I would recommend you look into having custom ear molds made like those used with “behind the ear” hearing aids. They make them for IEM’s and they are not very expensive and will do a much better job of sealing out ambient noise as they are custom molded to the physical shape of your ear itself.
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Pre RP Mullen D10 8/7, Zum 3/4, Carter S-10 3/4, previous Cougar SD-10 3/4 & GFI S-10 3/4, Fender Steel King, 2 Peavey Session 500's, Peavey Nashville 400, Boss DD-3, Profex-II, Hilton Digital Sustain, '88 Les Paul Custom,Epiphone MBIBG J-45, Fender Strat & Tele's, Takamine acoustics, Marshall amps, Boss effects, Ibanez Tube Screamer, and it all started with an old cranky worn out Kay acoustic you could slide a Mack truck between the strings and fretboard on!!
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