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Topic: Using The A Pedal |
Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 2:24 am |
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| Ok, here's my Question. I'm gettin better at keepin my foot over the A and B pedals without havin to see where my foot is but sometimes I find myself mashin just the A pedal by itself when I need it instead of keepin my foot over both pedals and bendin my ankle. Am I developing a bad habit here? Does it even matter? Or should I always keep my foot over the A and B pedals and bend at the ankle to use the A pedal? I just started gettin back into my E9 again and don't want to develope any bad habits. [This message was edited by Andy Sandoval on 11 January 2006 at 06:04 AM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 6:16 am
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Okay, in order to answer, I'll have to ask you these questions...
Can you, while holding the "A" pedal down, activate and release the "B" pedal without lifting your foot off the "A" pedal?
Can you do the exact opposite?
And, can you do both of the above quickly and smoothly?
If not, you'd better learn to keep your foor over both pedals and rock that ankle!  |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 6:27 am
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| What Donny said. That's thhe singlee most important left-foot excercise you can do. Without that facility, you're dead in the water. Do NOT get into the bad habit of centering the A or B pedals on your foot. Always hit them with an edge, ready to rock to the other. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 6:56 am
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I agree with Donny and Jim, the ability to bend the ankle is paramount to smooth, fast technique.
Good playing can be done without that ability, but maybe not on E9. Bud Carter told me he can't rock his ankle because of an old injury and therefore plays a Bb6 which requires less of that particular ankle movement.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 6:58 am
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Donny's right.
I began PSG about two years ago.
I spent a good amount of time learning the differneces between pedal mashing and pedal pressure.
Ive got some sweet bends now.
please try to develop good habits.
PSG is demanding. bad habits will make the instrument sound horrible. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 8:13 am
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The right shoes are important also. You need to have flexibility in the ankle. Also, you need to have your pedals adjusted to the proper height. Particularly when you want to rock off the A pedal and just mash the B pedal. There is always the problem with some pressure still on the A. Makes for a bad sound.
As far as I know, nobody had addressed the subject of pedal shape. A lot of the builders are using a wide, flat pedal. I prefer a rather narrow, arched pedal. I am particularly impressed with the design of the foot pedals on the Rains guitar. Makes rocking on and off the pedals a lot easier.
Erv[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 11 January 2006 at 08:16 AM.] |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 9:35 am
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Try changing the length of your pedal rod on the A pedal, so when both are down, they are level, but when both are up the A pedal is slightly higher.... this allows you to feel where the A pedal starts with you toe, I do the same on the first "C 6th" (B6th for me)pedal, allows the toe to feel where the next group of pedal starts.
After a while you'll just "know" where the pedals are.
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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com
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Luke Morell
From:
Ramsey Illinois, USA Hometown of Tex Williams
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 9:41 am
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| A friend of mine is also a steel player was having trouble bending his ankle one way,and he changed his pedals around to the Jimmy Day setup. |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 10:42 am
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I have had great luck with giving this drill to students in the past. You can do it while your watching TV or sitting at your desk at work and all you need is a tennis ball.
Put the tennis ball on the floor. Put your left foot on the ball with your heel on the floor. Rock your foot to the left until you feel the edge of you shoe hit the floor, rock back on top of the ball, then rock to the right until your foot touches the floor.
When you can do this without the ball coming out from under you foot, you got it!
JE:-)> |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 10:48 am
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| I think my bad habit arises from my difficulty in gettin my ankle to bend and could be related to my pedal adjustment. Currently my A pedal is slightly higher than the B pedal. I'm gonna experiment with my pedal height and see if that helps. Is there a preferred height adjustment on the A and B pedals that is more common for most folks? |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 11:15 am
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One thing I found about height of the A pedal is.... if it get's too high, the B pedal starts not getting completly depressed.... but I don't know of any standard other than what feels right and works for the individual player.
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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 11:50 am
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Most people prefer for the outside pedal to be a little higher, when both pedals are depressed. All the other pedals should be the exact same height when any two adjacent pedals are pressed together. This helps insure that when you press two together, both will hit the very bottom and play in tune. The most outside pedal (usually the A pedal) is a bit of an exception and can be a little higher, because it is so far over to the left, and because of the need to rock onto it without depressing the B pedal at all (which will inadvertently make it play out of tune). Having all the pedals hit bottom at the same point means that, because of the different throw lengths of different pedals, they may not be the same height when they are not depressed.
Another issue for the A and B pedals is throw length. If the throw of these pedals is too long, it is difficult to rock onto one without inadvertently pressing the other. If this is a problem, the throw can usually be adjusted either at the point where the pedal rod attaches to the cross rod lever, or where the changer pull rod attaches to the bell crank, or both.
These adjustments can be fairly subtle, but can make a lot of difference in the ease of playing. It pays to experiment with them a little to find what feels right for you. |
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Mark Lind-Hanson
From:
Menlo Park, California, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 5:00 pm
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| It might be out of my league to say it as I don;t have this capacity on my own machine, but, isn't a half-stop on the B-pedal supposed to compensate for this sort of problem? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 11 Jan 2006 5:34 pm
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Confused... Never heard of anyone putting a half stop on the B pedal. Your only raising the G#'s a half step, so there is no halfway to stop at (at least not one that is easy on the ears).
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Carter D10 9p/9k, NV400, Korg Triton Le88 Synth, Korg CX-3 organ, Yamaha Motif Rack Module, Regal Dobro, Tele, Gretsch Acoustic.
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Robert Porri
From:
Windsor, Connecticut, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 4:56 am
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I want to mention adding knee levers into your A and B pedal exercises. Especially going in opposite directions like combining RKR with the A pedal and RKL with the B pedal. Joe Wright does some interesting instruction on this (and tons of other things) on his DVD's.
Bob P. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 5:17 am
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| Quote: |
| A friend of mine is also a steel player was having trouble bending his ankle one way,and he changed his pedals around to the Jimmy Day setup. |
Exactly why many of us use the Day set up - not so much ankle movement required to pedal onto the A pedal from B pedal. Just place your foot on the ground and see which way is easier to rotate it. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 5:22 am
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I find the Day setup more ergonomic.
I've spent hours trying to get the right pulls on A & B. Did not experience the same with Day pedals.
I like the look of the Rains pedals too; just right. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 8:01 am
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Charlie,
You're right! I really like my Williams guitar but after I got it I had to take a file to the the right corner of the A pedal. My shoe kept hanging up on it when I would rock onto the B pedal.
If you remember, the old Sho~Buds HAD the corner cut off on that pedal. However, with my new Rains I have NO problem. Bob really put a lot of thought into the design of these guitars. 
Erv |
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Mark Lind-Hanson
From:
Menlo Park, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 8:26 am
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OK so perhaps I had it wrong there but in saying so, meaning, isn't a half-stop on any pedal meant to deal with that>?<
Switching the A & C might be a solution for some people, but I don't think it would be speaking for myself. |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 8:27 am
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| Today I'm experimenting with A and B pedal height hopin to find a more comfortable playin position. I've thought about the "Day setup" but will give the current setup a fair chance before givin up. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 8:44 am
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| Most people have more range of flexibility rotating the ankle inward rather than outward. Another added benefit of the "Day" setup is that it places the "home" (A&B) pedals a little closer to the center of the guitar, which makes operating the left knee-levers easier for many players. |
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Darrell Owens
From:
California, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 9:16 am
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I learned pedal steel on an old Fender guitar that was set up "Day". Later I tried going to the Emmons set up and I could not get my ankle to bend correctly. I went back to the Day set up and WOW - it was so easy. It just seems natural for me.
However, no matter which set up you play, you need to keep your foot centered over the a/b pedals.
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Darrell Owens
www.darrellowens.com |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 9:40 am
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Not to muddle this too much for Andy, but Donny's remark about having the 2 main pedals closer to the center of the guitar is a good one. With that said I acheived this by moving the E-F# change normally found on pedal C to a KL, made A&B the 2nd and 3rd (but still Emmons, not Day) and put a G#-G (strings 3 & 6)on the first pedal ("pedal zero"). This info is found on many other posts, I only meant to reinforce that moving A&B to the right is a good thing.
As far as considering a Day setup Andy, you can't, you live on the West Coast (really only kidding folks, no flames please  )
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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 11:56 am
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One aspect that nobody has mentioned is seat height.
If the seat is too low, it becomes difficult to operate the pedals.
I sit high at my steel for optimum pedal activation  |
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Pat Kelly
From:
Wentworthville, New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 12 Jan 2006 12:06 pm
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I'm learning too but I can tell you that using the A pedal with the flat of the foot IS a bad habit and hard to get out of once it gets ingrained. I've been through it. I don't have a teacher so bad habits can creep in because I don't recognise them until it's too late. Try to play the a pedal with the ankle turned as much as possible. If you can, try and the the sole of the foot nearly vertical. Try the slide from F on fourth fret (A pedal F lever) down to C on 3(pedals a+b). With a flat foot on the A pedal to start, you have to release the a pedal to get to the a+b position. The slide can't be smooth. So I try now to play the a pedal with the side of the foot all the time to give the flexibility for whatever change may come up.
[This message was edited by Pat Kelly on 12 January 2006 at 12:08 PM.] |
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